Cleaning live ammo in a tumbler

[MoJo]

I have done this in the past but will refrain from now on.

On another forum this question was asked I said it was OK. During the discussion, the subject of powder degradation came up one poster (a gun writer and trainer) was adamant about not cleaning ammunition in a tumbler. So I contacted Hodgdon and posed the question to them. Here's the answer I got:

Tumbling loaded cartridges is not a good idea. The powder is mechanically degraded by friction creating a very fine dust-like powder and reducing the size of the powder kernels both of which increase the burn speed of the propellant in the cartridge. If the propellant has an externally applied deterrent coating, this coating may also be removed from the individual powder kernels which, again, increases the burn speed of the powder. Increases in burn speed of the powder will cause pressures to escalate along with the degree of degradation of the powder by the mechanical action of tumbling or vibration.



In other words, it is not recommended to tumble or vibrate loaded ammo. There can be no positive outcome from doing this, only negative outcomes.



Mike Daly

Customer Service Manager

Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

Hodgdon Smokeless Powder

IMR Powder Company

Winchester Smokeless Propellants

GOEX Blackpowder


umbling loaded cartridges is not a good idea. The powder is mechanically degraded by friction creating a very fine dust-like powder and reducing the size of the powder kernels both of which increase the burn speed of the propellant in the cartridge. If the propellant has an externally applied deterrent coating, this coating may also be removed from the individual powder kernels which, again, increases the burn speed of the powder. Increases in burn speed of the powder will cause pressures to escalate along with the degree of degradation of the powder by the mechanical action of tumbling or vibration.



In other words, it is not recommended to tumble or vibrate loaded ammo. There can be no positive outcome from doing this, only negative outcomes.



Mike Daly

Customer Service Manager

Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

Hodgdon Smokeless Powder

IMR Powder Company

Winchester Smokeless Propellants

GOEX BlackpowderT


Just a little friendly heads up.

[SeaHawk]

I also found this floating around at : http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum12/8877.html

• Lapua/Vhitavouria's response from today.
  
  Tumbling loaded cartridges
  
  Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:44 AM
  
  "Kevin S Thomas" <ksthomas@lapua.us>
  
  Dear David,
  
  Adam forwarded your inquiry to me, and I'll be happy to answer. The short answer is, no, it's not going to cause a problem, but I do want to cover a few things just to be safe. The slightly longer answer is yes, it could. Tumbling of loaded ammunition is a common practice for ammo manufacturers, and it's done all the time. The key is, they don't do it for very long; usually nothing more than required to remove any traces of lube from the loaded ammunition, or whatever else may need to be accomplished. I normally do this with large lots of pistol ammunition if I've bulk loaded them on a progressive press. Again, the key is, they're run for a very short period of time, never more than 10 minutes. You're obviously familiar with powder "construction" and the application of deterrent coatings such as graphite or dinitrotoluene (DNT), and I assume your concern stems from the possible removal of or damage to this coating. Actually, this is precisely how many of these coatings are applied to begin with, and the powder goes through several tumblings during its production. In short, damaging it via this same process is fairly unlikely, especially once the powder is contained in a loaded cartridge.
  
  This said, anything can be overdone. Tumbling cartridges for an excessive length of time, or in too vigorous a tumbler could be detrimental. I can't hazard a guess as to how long this may take, as I suspect there will be several variables coming into play. The bottom line is, minimum tumbling, in as gentle a process as will accomplish the task. For my own loadings, as I said before, I use ten minutes as my own personal maximum, in a vibratory tumbler. Loaded cartridges will likely see much more severe treatment than this in the field (bouncing around in SUVs off road, etc.) so I personally regard this as an acceptable limit.
  
  Longer tumbling times and/or exceptionally rough tumbling methods could, theoretically, create problems. These may relate to the deterrent coatings, or to the possibility of external damage . The potential for accidental ignition via a primer being impacted by an FMJ, that sort of thing. I've never heard of such an occurrence, but I wouldn't discount it, either. The key here is some moderation and common sense.
  
  I hope this answers your concerns, but if you'd like to address anything more specifically, I'd be happy to discuss this with you further. Please feel free to contact us again, anytime. As always, we're more than happy to be of service.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Kevin Thomas
  
  Lapua USA

So take your pick.

[Jumping Frog]

Every commercial ammunition manufacturer tumbles their loaded ammo.

[gigag04]

I prefer to hand polish each round with brasso and a wool sock. For stubborn tarnish, I'll use a dremel with polishing compound.

I find that with my method, the average shooter (mall ninjas excluded) will see dramatic increases in muzzle velocity, and thus, lethality.

All of my "fighting guns" have hand polished, bead blasted ammo, done by hand, by Bill Wilson, LAV, and Hornady technicians. I then send each round to Robar to be refinished in NP3, with hard chromed primers. I have one batch that recieved FDE casings, which I find useful in lowlight operations, as the incoming round projects less of a visual signature to the target

This is the same method used by Seal Team Six operators.







(random satire...need sleep)

[stroo]

Why would you polish live ammo?

[SeaHawk]

Agrees with gigag04's procedure.


Should one of those rounds strike a zombie, I bet it would project a brilliantly colored puff of vapor.

[Jumping Frog]

Why would you polish live ammo?

I cast my own bullets, and then coat them with Alox (a bullet lube). This leaves the bullet slightly tacky to the touch,

Tumbling after loading removes the bullet lube from the exposed portion of the bullet.

I also like the way it makes them look:

[medalguy]

I know this is kinda an old thread but I finally found an article originally posted on AR15.com I have been looking for that discusses what happens to powder when tumbling live ammo. I thought it was worth reposting here for anyone interested to read. The article is a little long, but it takes a very scientific approach to the subject and shows the results of everything from short duration to extremely long duration tumbling on powder and the resulting ballistics and velocity opf the ammo. If you ever had ANY question about hte safety of doing this, this is the definitive story on the safety of tumbling live ammo:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047 ... in_OP.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Griz44]

what about those rounds I have been carrying around in my truck for years?

I don't think I have ever had a round that made it more than a few months, much less a few years. I usually shoot them!

[Jumping Frog]

I've also read studies over on TheHighRoad.org that showed no detectible changes in chronograph results for a variety of powders tumbled for an absurdly long time.

I'll continue to tumble my finished ammo, no differently than every major ammo manufacturer.