Road Rage Incident
Moderators: carlson1, Keith B, Charles L. Cotton
Road Rage Incident
I was recently on my normal commute home from work. All was well, but things certainly changed in a hurry...
I was in the right lane on a 3 lane highway (bumper to bumper traffic). I had just passed an area where a fourth lane ended, so traffic had to merge left, into the lane I was now in. There was still shoulder on my right, but very close ahead a concrete barrier blocked the shoulder. As I approached the area where the shoulder was blocked, I heard (via my open sunroof) a vehicle approaching and then someone slam on the brakes. As I later put together, it seems the driver of a large pick-up was speeding down the shoulder to pass traffic and evidently realized he could go no further so he slammed on the brakes and merged into traffic in the right lane - I assume he was about to try to squeeze in front of my car but failed to get there in time? I didn't see any of this so it's just what I assume based on what happened next.
Oblivious to any problem, I continued in the right lane and then merged into the middle lane - as the right lane was about to end as an exit only. Again, traffic is very slow. I am suddenly aware of the pick-up next to me, with the driver yelling, etc. I didn't have a clue what his problem was, but he steered his truck at me and came very close to making contact, I waved as if to wave him off. I slowed further to let him go on and exit, that's when the real trouble began.
The driver of the pick up passed me on my right, but then turned his truck hard left, blocking my lane and blocking me in. He then proceded to get out, to reveal an enormous man made of basically all muscle. Things happened quickly - I believe all traffic stopped - so there was no where to escape. I am a CHL holder and quickly grabbed my pistol, keeping it low and out of site. As the man approached I probably made a mistake but lowered my driver window. The man didn't speak of driving - he only yelled about how big he was and how he was going to snap my neck and kill me with one punch. As he continued to stand in the middle of the highway (having stopped all traffic) I found myself with this man just about a foot from my window. I didn't say a word. Actually I don't think I could have spoken if I had to. I kept my pisol in hand, out of site and decided that my 'no cross line' was if he made a move to reach into my window. Keeping my eyes on him I never said a word. I let him yell, and make an exhibition with his movements. I glanced down once at where my pistol was, just to make sure my movement would be clear if I had to draw. When I looked back at the man I caught him looking, as if to see what was in my hand. I think at this point the man may have begun to re-think his actions (I didn't do what he wanted by yelling back or getting out - but rather watched him closely with a hand low and out of sight). He finished yelling whatever, got back into his truck, and proceeded to get back in the far right lane to exit the highway. I waited for a few moments before proceeding to drive on. All muscle, but do you think in what little brain he had he knows what was about to happen?
As I continue to reflect on this incident, I feel it is worth sharing and welcome feedback. A few things in advance. Those that would say 'should have called 911', this all happened so fast I grabbed the only thing that could provide immediate protection. I had not provoked him, but I am smart enough to know that anyone that blocks traffic on a highway and gets out of their vehicle like this is not coming to sell me cookies. With the incident having gone as far as it did, I fell into tunnel vision. I knew I was blocked from escape so my only focus became where he was, what he was doing, and if/when I was about to make a life changing decision. This man could very well have inflicted the harm he described, no doubt. When I continued my drive, all I had on my mind was that I was safe. I didn't even think to get a license plate, call the police, or anything further. While the incident completely stopped traffic, no bystanders did anything to my knowledge either.
This is a very clear example of how quickly things can change. The next day I could only think about how different today could be - talk big all you want, but to be actually be in a situation where you make a 'committment' inside that the use of deadly force is only moments away - not a place you want to be. Of course I still carry. Be safe out there.
I was in the right lane on a 3 lane highway (bumper to bumper traffic). I had just passed an area where a fourth lane ended, so traffic had to merge left, into the lane I was now in. There was still shoulder on my right, but very close ahead a concrete barrier blocked the shoulder. As I approached the area where the shoulder was blocked, I heard (via my open sunroof) a vehicle approaching and then someone slam on the brakes. As I later put together, it seems the driver of a large pick-up was speeding down the shoulder to pass traffic and evidently realized he could go no further so he slammed on the brakes and merged into traffic in the right lane - I assume he was about to try to squeeze in front of my car but failed to get there in time? I didn't see any of this so it's just what I assume based on what happened next.
Oblivious to any problem, I continued in the right lane and then merged into the middle lane - as the right lane was about to end as an exit only. Again, traffic is very slow. I am suddenly aware of the pick-up next to me, with the driver yelling, etc. I didn't have a clue what his problem was, but he steered his truck at me and came very close to making contact, I waved as if to wave him off. I slowed further to let him go on and exit, that's when the real trouble began.
The driver of the pick up passed me on my right, but then turned his truck hard left, blocking my lane and blocking me in. He then proceded to get out, to reveal an enormous man made of basically all muscle. Things happened quickly - I believe all traffic stopped - so there was no where to escape. I am a CHL holder and quickly grabbed my pistol, keeping it low and out of site. As the man approached I probably made a mistake but lowered my driver window. The man didn't speak of driving - he only yelled about how big he was and how he was going to snap my neck and kill me with one punch. As he continued to stand in the middle of the highway (having stopped all traffic) I found myself with this man just about a foot from my window. I didn't say a word. Actually I don't think I could have spoken if I had to. I kept my pisol in hand, out of site and decided that my 'no cross line' was if he made a move to reach into my window. Keeping my eyes on him I never said a word. I let him yell, and make an exhibition with his movements. I glanced down once at where my pistol was, just to make sure my movement would be clear if I had to draw. When I looked back at the man I caught him looking, as if to see what was in my hand. I think at this point the man may have begun to re-think his actions (I didn't do what he wanted by yelling back or getting out - but rather watched him closely with a hand low and out of sight). He finished yelling whatever, got back into his truck, and proceeded to get back in the far right lane to exit the highway. I waited for a few moments before proceeding to drive on. All muscle, but do you think in what little brain he had he knows what was about to happen?
As I continue to reflect on this incident, I feel it is worth sharing and welcome feedback. A few things in advance. Those that would say 'should have called 911', this all happened so fast I grabbed the only thing that could provide immediate protection. I had not provoked him, but I am smart enough to know that anyone that blocks traffic on a highway and gets out of their vehicle like this is not coming to sell me cookies. With the incident having gone as far as it did, I fell into tunnel vision. I knew I was blocked from escape so my only focus became where he was, what he was doing, and if/when I was about to make a life changing decision. This man could very well have inflicted the harm he described, no doubt. When I continued my drive, all I had on my mind was that I was safe. I didn't even think to get a license plate, call the police, or anything further. While the incident completely stopped traffic, no bystanders did anything to my knowledge either.
This is a very clear example of how quickly things can change. The next day I could only think about how different today could be - talk big all you want, but to be actually be in a situation where you make a 'committment' inside that the use of deadly force is only moments away - not a place you want to be. Of course I still carry. Be safe out there.
Re: Road Rage Incident
First off welcome to the forum, and what a first post you made.
I think you did all the right things, except I would have gone ahead and called 911 immediately after the incident. Even though he couldn't see the gun, he may have put 2 + 2 together and got 5, which was close enough to figure out you might have had a gun. If he decided to try and push his luck, and calls you tried to hit him and when he calmly got out to talk to you about it you displayed a weapon, then you could have a lot of explaining to do.
Best to call, state what happened and let them know he cut you off and was the road rage aggressor. No need to mention you had your hand on a weapon if he didn't see it, just the base facts. Being the first one to call 911 gives you the credibility over his statements later.
I think you did all the right things, except I would have gone ahead and called 911 immediately after the incident. Even though he couldn't see the gun, he may have put 2 + 2 together and got 5, which was close enough to figure out you might have had a gun. If he decided to try and push his luck, and calls you tried to hit him and when he calmly got out to talk to you about it you displayed a weapon, then you could have a lot of explaining to do.
Best to call, state what happened and let them know he cut you off and was the road rage aggressor. No need to mention you had your hand on a weapon if he didn't see it, just the base facts. Being the first one to call 911 gives you the credibility over his statements later.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: Road Rage Incident
I agree with Keith, except I'm wondering how you can KNOW he didn't see your handgun? Was it completely concealed from view, or just obscured - like behind your leg, other side of center console etc?
Either way I would call 911 immediately to let them know what happened - in case he decides to call with a made up version of events, but also because what this guy did was wrong and should be reported. I WOULD mention the gun if there is any possibility that he actually saw it or might even infer that you had a gun (again, covering yourself in case he makes the first 911 call to report "guy pulled a gun on me".
Rolling down your window in such a fast-moving event seems to be a common problem (I know someone personally who did this - didn't even realize she'd done it - and the guy actually grabbed her shirt and tried to pull her out of the car - she was unarmed).
Anyway, glad you're OK. Glad you were able to avoid the situation withOUT resorting to use of deadly force. Thanks for posting. And welcome to the forum.
Either way I would call 911 immediately to let them know what happened - in case he decides to call with a made up version of events, but also because what this guy did was wrong and should be reported. I WOULD mention the gun if there is any possibility that he actually saw it or might even infer that you had a gun (again, covering yourself in case he makes the first 911 call to report "guy pulled a gun on me".
Rolling down your window in such a fast-moving event seems to be a common problem (I know someone personally who did this - didn't even realize she'd done it - and the guy actually grabbed her shirt and tried to pull her out of the car - she was unarmed).
Anyway, glad you're OK. Glad you were able to avoid the situation withOUT resorting to use of deadly force. Thanks for posting. And welcome to the forum.
Re: Road Rage Incident
No offense, but I find it hard to believe you could shut the door on someone and not know it.
I've done that when I saw someone passing on the shoulder, and acted like I was oblivious, but i knew what I was doing, and I knew it could provoke someone.
If you know you are dealing with an aggressive driver who is now fixated on YOU, the very last thing you want to happen is let them get in front of you.
I'd probably be videoing the guy on my cellphone with my free hand.
I've done that when I saw someone passing on the shoulder, and acted like I was oblivious, but i knew what I was doing, and I knew it could provoke someone.
If you know you are dealing with an aggressive driver who is now fixated on YOU, the very last thing you want to happen is let them get in front of you.
I'd probably be videoing the guy on my cellphone with my free hand.
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“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
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Re: Road Rage Incident
As others have stated, my only suggestions are, next time forget rolling down the window,, that barrier would make a clear point of intrusion into your safe zone to which you must defend yourself.. Something like a broken window would greatly assist the jury of your peers in seeing the event from your point of view.
Second of course, I concur with the 911 call... The bottom line is, the first caller is the victim until proven otherwise.. To have no more than a report and description in your words of what happened on record first would be a good thing, better with physical description of the person, truck and a Lic plate #.
Your calm demeanor (ie not engaging in a shouting match) was great restraint and a good job.
Second of course, I concur with the 911 call... The bottom line is, the first caller is the victim until proven otherwise.. To have no more than a report and description in your words of what happened on record first would be a good thing, better with physical description of the person, truck and a Lic plate #.
Your calm demeanor (ie not engaging in a shouting match) was great restraint and a good job.
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Re: Road Rage Incident
"OnStar. What's your emergency?"
"I'm being attacked. Send help!"
"I'm being attacked. Send help!"
When in doubt
Vote them out!
Vote them out!
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Re: Road Rage Incident
I think GM would make a ton of $$ offering this service/device to other manufacturers.tacticool wrote:"OnStar. What's your emergency?"
"I'm being attacked. Send help!"
They should definitely spin it off...
Back on topic... Good job staying cool about it..
As others have said... Window closed, dial 911, report license plate, record with cell phone if possible...
And... If you can... record/report the plates of any cars that might be witnesses.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
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Re: Road Rage Incident
The story does seem sanitized a little. . . but I can believe on a daily commute that somebody is lost in their own thoughts, going through the motions, and not paying conscious attention to anything beyond their nose. If so, that's another thing to be aware of - trying to identify when we slip into inattention and forcing ourselves to stay alert - even when we're in our vehicles and not immediately in the company of others.Rex B wrote:No offense, but I find it hard to believe you could shut the door on someone and not know it.
I've done that when I saw someone passing on the shoulder, and acted like I was oblivious, but i knew what I was doing, and I knew it could provoke someone.
If you know you are dealing with an aggressive driver who is now fixated on YOU, the very last thing you want to happen is let them get in front of you.
I'd probably be videoing the guy on my cellphone with my free hand.
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Re: Road Rage Incident
Did I miss something? It sounded like a whole lot of horn honkin' and brake screechin' was goin' on.besafer wrote:
...Oblivious to any problem....
Oh well, all's well that ends well.
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Re: Road Rage Incident
+1 on keeping the window rolled up.
I'd have a left hand on the phone taking video, and the right hand on my gun. If they guy wants to take out his roid rage on my car, well, that's his choice.
I'd have a left hand on the phone taking video, and the right hand on my gun. If they guy wants to take out his roid rage on my car, well, that's his choice.
"When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden. The one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream." - speedsix
Re: Road Rage Incident
I like to think thats what I would be doing, but under pressure, it would take a lot for me to remember to not try and talk to the person, I think I would be able to not roll down the window but at that point I dont know if I would be able to realisticly record what was going on with my phone and keep up with my handgun in a state where it is ready to use at a moments notice.Fangs wrote:+1 on keeping the window rolled up.
I'd have a left hand on the phone taking video, and the right hand on my gun. If they guy wants to take out his roid rage on my car, well, that's his choice.
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Re: Road Rage Incident
If the guy is being loud, I'd think that an audio recording should be sufficient evidence. Many new phones have a voice memo feature. Hit that, and set the phone on the dash.
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Re: Road Rage Incident
Even better is the sound of the guy yelling on your recorded 911 call.KC5AV wrote:If the guy is being loud, I'd think that an audio recording should be sufficient evidence. Many new phones have a voice memo feature. Hit that, and set the phone on the dash.
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DFW area LTC Instructor
NRA Pistol Instructor, Range Safety Officer, Recruiter
Re: Road Rage Incident
That would be the best of both worlds.MasterOfNone wrote:Even better is the sound of the guy yelling on your recorded 911 call.KC5AV wrote:If the guy is being loud, I'd think that an audio recording should be sufficient evidence. Many new phones have a voice memo feature. Hit that, and set the phone on the dash.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Re: Road Rage Incident
My two cents:
Yes, +1 on keeping the window rolled up. You probably caught on to that by now.
Yes, calling 911 is a good idea, BUT your first priority is to keep yourself safe, and you pretty much did that. Call 911 as the situation allows, but I would not substitute fiddling with the phone and/or its recording functions to collect "evidence" at the expense of keeping on top of the situation. You mentioned the "tunnel vision;" a lot of things are competing for you limited attention/focus at a time like that, fiddling with the phone should be well behind keeping an eye on the threat and dealing with it.
You actually got a pretty good "training experience" - you now know exactly what it is like to be under threat, and yet you didn't get hurt. If you are ever confronted again, I think you are likely to not be as anxious/rattled, and better able to deal with the overall situation. A bit of inoculation, if you will.
One, the guy who "shut the door" - on himself - was the guy running down the shoulder that was closed off, going too fast to react properly, who had to screech tires and cut in. There is no moral obligation for those in the next lane over to compensate for his poor driving. You might out of "self-defense" to keep the clown from running into your car, but if there is a problem, it is the fault of the one who was making poor driving decisions and driving beyond the capabilities of his truck and himself.
Two. I have "sneaked up" from behind on people while driving a large red truck with flashing lights and siren, who still didn't realize I was there until the last moment -- and been a bit surprised myself once in awhile when a police car, ambulance, or fire truck seemed to suddenly appear on my six at various distances, never mind somebody in a pickup driving too fast on the shoulder. It is all well and good to pay attention to everything, but in heavy traffic, most of the threat is up front, and it doesn't take long for the situation behind you to change. Check six often, but if you are not changing lanes yourself, you are not closing the door on someone in the next lane over who is driving with his ego instead of his brain.
Yes, +1 on keeping the window rolled up. You probably caught on to that by now.
Yes, calling 911 is a good idea, BUT your first priority is to keep yourself safe, and you pretty much did that. Call 911 as the situation allows, but I would not substitute fiddling with the phone and/or its recording functions to collect "evidence" at the expense of keeping on top of the situation. You mentioned the "tunnel vision;" a lot of things are competing for you limited attention/focus at a time like that, fiddling with the phone should be well behind keeping an eye on the threat and dealing with it.
You actually got a pretty good "training experience" - you now know exactly what it is like to be under threat, and yet you didn't get hurt. If you are ever confronted again, I think you are likely to not be as anxious/rattled, and better able to deal with the overall situation. A bit of inoculation, if you will.
Two thoughts.No offense, but I find it hard to believe you could shut the door on someone and not know it...
One, the guy who "shut the door" - on himself - was the guy running down the shoulder that was closed off, going too fast to react properly, who had to screech tires and cut in. There is no moral obligation for those in the next lane over to compensate for his poor driving. You might out of "self-defense" to keep the clown from running into your car, but if there is a problem, it is the fault of the one who was making poor driving decisions and driving beyond the capabilities of his truck and himself.
Two. I have "sneaked up" from behind on people while driving a large red truck with flashing lights and siren, who still didn't realize I was there until the last moment -- and been a bit surprised myself once in awhile when a police car, ambulance, or fire truck seemed to suddenly appear on my six at various distances, never mind somebody in a pickup driving too fast on the shoulder. It is all well and good to pay attention to everything, but in heavy traffic, most of the threat is up front, and it doesn't take long for the situation behind you to change. Check six often, but if you are not changing lanes yourself, you are not closing the door on someone in the next lane over who is driving with his ego instead of his brain.
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