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Let me start by saying that I don't often get the chance to carry because I work in a chemical plant. I was glad I was carrying this day though….

The other day while leaving the bank (daylight, business hours), I noticed a black SUV pull up behind my vehicle and block me in. The vehicle just sat there for a minute before pulling up next to me. My strong arm instantly went to my weapon which was located on my right hip. I did not draw my weapon, I just put my hand on it to prepare. There were two large gentlemen in the SUV. The passenger rolled down his window as he pulled up next to me and asked me if I spoke Italian. The only foreign language I speak a little of it Spanish…and I do mean very little. I thought maybe they needed directions or something and I was going to try to help them out. Well it turns out he was trying to sell me some leather jackets for a "bargain." What a load of crap! People who drive around trying to sell stuff like that are usually selling junk! The passenger, still inside his vehicle, handed me his business card and I quickly looked at it and said no thanks. He then started to get out of his vehicle, but I was able to tell him I was not interested and I started to drive away. I wasn't sure if he selling stolen jackets or if he was breaking any laws, but I called the police and gave them a vehicle description and license plate info anyways. There was no confrontation, but it had robbery or car jacking written all over it. What would have happened if I had let him get out of his vehicle or if I had gotten out of mine? We'll never know.

Let's suppose they would not have pulled up next to me and continued block me in and got out of their car to come to me. In your opinion, would one be justified for using the "threat" of force, verbal or actual display of a handgun? Two large men, me by myself and they have blocked my vehicle in. They had not made any actual threats, but we see this situation day in and day out on the news…not always a happy ending.

I guess the lessons to be learned from this are : be aware of your surroundings and if you do get in a situation, look for a way out. Being that this occurred at a bank, my senses and awareness were already heightened. This could have occurred anywhere though.

Let's talk about this.

Oh yeah, here's a news story from an incident that occurred the next day just a couple miles away.
http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2010/ ... bery24.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suspect you would be in trouble threatening lethal force for nothing more than blocking you in. No threats, no apparent weapon, daylight -- stay alert, certainly, but drawing or presenting your firearm would probably not go well.

I've heard of this type of approach before (selling out of their trunk). Usually stated that it's excess merchandise, and they'll give you a good deal. Mostly it's either fraud (you get a box supposedly containing a TV, that contains bricks instead), or the merchandise is stolen. Best to do just what you did -- leave, and call the police.

Justin CHL wrote:Let's suppose they would not have pulled up next to me and continued block me in and got out of their car to come to me. In your opinion, would one be justified for using the "threat" of force, verbal or actual display of a handgun? Two large men, me by myself and they have blocked my vehicle in. They had not made any actual threats, but we see this situation day in and day out on the news…not always a happy ending.

I think this is the part about which Justin CHL was asking hypothetically. If that happened to me, I would have the following in effect:

1) 911 dialed into cell phone & ready to call at the press of a button of my left hand
2) Right hand on grip of pistol with firearm removed from holster but still kept out of sight (while observing 4 rules, of course!)
3) Maybe even have the truck in Reverse w/ foot on brake ready to gun it and maybe push other vehicle out of the way enough to beat a hasty retreat

I think the real key here would be real and perceived threat. Approaching your locked door and rolled up window with bare hands would play out differently than if they had bats/tire irons/firearms/etc.

Glad everything worked out for you. Excellent illustration of "Stay Alert, Stay Alive"





Edited: "site" to "sight" in bullet point 2

Once they get out of their car you have a huge advantage, easier to speed away and run them over (if needed) than to shoot, and would probably get you in less trouble too.

IMHO, I think you did fine. I also think you left yourself a little open for them if they wanted to do more than they did. Showing your weapon would have definitely gotten you in some trouble.

Getting back in your vehicle and putting it in reverse with the foot on the brake would have been a clear indication you wanted to leave. If they still wanted to try and sell you something, just say no and politely ask them to move so you could leave. If they persisted, just shut off your vehicle, get out and return to the bank to call the police.

Now, if either of them lays a hand on you all bets are off.

It sounds like a classic "White Van" scam. Here's more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They probably targeted you at the bank so as to give you quick access to the money you would have needed to purchase their inferior (though probably not stolen) jackets. Or, this could have been a twist on the white van scam in which they rob you as you're pulling the cash (assuming you were using a walk-up or drive-in ATM).

I'm not a lawyer; I don't even pretend to be one on the internet. However, I don't think a van briefly blocking you in would constitute a threat (in and of itself). Could they have stopped behind you to let another car out? ...or to allow another customer to cross the parking lot?

They "blocked" your vehicle before parking next to you. At that point, you could/should have pulled out. Of course backing into your parking spot would have made it a lot easier to leave in a swift manor (something I try to do if possible).

If I had a firearm with me, it would have been in my hand under a towel I always keep in my truck. I would also not have rolled down my window to speak with them (if my window had been up).



I had a "white van" stop me in a parking lot of a best buy in NC. It was the fall, so my windows were down and they said they had some great deals on stereos. I said I knew a cop who was working off duty at walmart right then (across the parking lot) that was looking for one. They looked at each other and decided not to close the sale

Justin CHL wrote: Let's suppose they would not have pulled up next to me and continued block me in and got out of their car to come to me. In your opinion, would one be justified for using the "threat" of force, verbal or actual display of a handgun?.....They had not made any actual threats

You would in now way be justified in threatening deadly force (which is considered force) based on the story as you told it. You need to be more aggressive and tell them to stop approaching you and to move their vehicle immediately before you start getting into presenting a weapon.

Without any threats they have done nothing illegal and you would be (rightfully) going to jail. Just because somebody scares you does not mean you can point a gun at them.

Thanks for the post and great situational awareness. Way to keep cool and keep your gun hidden but ready. You played it right IMO.

i would had told the idiot to find a better hustle. it was 100+ degrees outside in north texas yesterday. not exactly leather jacket weather.

god bless.

i would had told the idiot to find a better hustle. it was 100+ degrees outside in north texas yesterday. not exactly leather jacket weather. god bless.

pcernuch wrote:i would had told the idiot to find a better hustle. it was 100+ degrees outside in north texas yesterday. not exactly leather jacket weather.

god bless.

sorry about that i pressed enter accidentally.
right now is the best time to buy a jacket! when it gets colder, it will be more expensive... was it real leather or pleather?
on a serious note, i usually have an answer to this MO. I speak in my heavy filipino accent....."NO SPEAKINING ENGLISSSS". 100% of the time they walk away!

They fell off a truck.

Great replies! Actually I knew the answers before I posted the question, I just wanted to see what others would do.

In this situation I did leave myself a little open, but I'm always inclined to help others out. Unfortunately this world is becoming more and more dangerous.

Stay alert and get out of there if you can. Always call the police and let them know what happened….especially if you pull your weapon! You don't want the bad guy to be the first one to call the cops!

I actually had something similar happen to me.

I took a female friend to a pharmacy late at night to fill a prescription. At the drive through, I saw in my rear view mirror a guy walk towards us. I shined my tactical flashlight in his eyes to blind him and said, "Stop! What do you want?" He immediately turned around and walked away without saying a word.

Get a tactical flashlight and carry that.

drjoker wrote:I actually had something similar happen to me.

I took a female friend to a pharmacy late at night to fill a prescription. At the drive through, I saw in my rear view mirror a guy walk towards us. I shined my tactical flashlight in his eyes to blind him and said, "Stop! What do you want?" He immediately turned around and walked away without saying a word.

Get a tactical flashlight and carry that.

Good job! Most criminals or would be robbers will go the other way if they know you're aware of their presence. It pays to check out your surroundings!