Make sure you know what kind of gun you have.

[atxgun]

I went skeet shooting with a friend today. He wanted to finally shoot the new 20 gauge shot gun his dad had got him earlier in the year. I go through a couple round and he steps up. The skeet flies he shoots, nothing happens.

"Take your safety off", I shout.
"It is!" he replies.

He keeps it down range for a good while before ejecting it. Sure enough there was a mark where the pin had struck.

He tries another round. This one goes off but just barely. He tries to eject but the shell is down the barrel. I ask to see his gun, look at it, and point out to him the "12 ga." inscribed on the sign of his gun.

Apparently he thought it was a 20 b/c those were the shells he was given along with the gun.

[kalipsocs]

How about a friend of a friend (but NOT my friend!!) chambering a .357 Sig in a .40 S&W? He got it to chamber and had a malfuction of sorts, then when he tried to rack a new round it was way jammed to which my friend took the firearm and noticed the necked down round vs. the flat nose of a .40. Not only did he not pay attention to what he was loading into the firearm, he tried to make excuses. "Dude, it was the same box as the other stuff...how was I supposed to know!" (Both the .40 and .357 Sig were WWB) He was new to firearms, but 3 different people calmly explained the 4 basic rules of safe handling and operation, and other various pointers....like showing him various calibers and how to match a head stamp to the stamp on the barrel! Needless to say, he doesn't some to the range with any of us anymore.

[pedalman]

This is like the gentleman I came across at the range one time. He had just purchased a used TC Contender and asked me why the holes in the target were ragged stars. After examining the pistol, I found that he had the ribbed barrel that fires 357 Magnum and 410 shotshells (when you install the star-shaped choke in the muzzle).

I asked him if he had received an odd-looking turnkey with the gun. After he replied to the affirmative, I informed him that in order to fire 357 rounds from this barrel,, he needs to remove the choke from the muzzle.

Actually, I was surprised that no damage was done to the pistol or him.

[mr.72]

Loading 20ga shotgun shells into a 12ga and firing it is a recipe for disaster. The dude is very lucky the gun didn't kaboom in spectacular fashion.

This is a good reason to limit the calibers you have on hand. This is one reason why I only have 9mm handguns. It is easy to make a mistake. .380, 9mm, .40SW all look alike. If you are not really familiar with them then it could be a totally honest mistake to load the wrong thing.

[NcongruNt]

Loading 20ga shotgun shells into a 12ga and firing it is a recipe for disaster. The dude is very lucky the gun didn't kaboom in spectacular fashion.

This is a good reason to limit the calibers you have on hand. This is one reason why I only have 9mm handguns. It is easy to make a mistake. .380, 9mm, .40SW all look alike. If you are not really familiar with them then it could be a totally honest mistake to load the wrong thing.

Um. I think that's actually a poor reason to limit the calibers you have on hand. A good reason to do so would be for ammo compatibility between your weapons, and to simplify ammunition acquisition.

I can tell the difference between 9mm, 9x18, and .380 from each other simply from visual inspection. Even so, you only need to look at the headstamp to verify. I wouldn't call myself "really familiar" with them. I'm familiar enough to look at them and see the differences, and have been since I acquired the each of the guns and ammunition for their respective calibers. While they are similar in design, only a true novice (such as the friend in the story) would be unable to tell the differences between the calibers. The only time I've heard of an experienced shooter mixing up calibers was when all the rounds were thrown together in a box (such as reloaded rounds), and the shooter wasn't paying attention when loading the magazine.

EDIT: I took a picture to demonstrate this. I don't have a 20ga to compare to 12, but I do have 16ga. The difference between 12 and 20 will be even more pronounced.


From left to right: 12ga, 16ga, 9mm (9x19), 9mm Makarov (9x18), .380 ACP (9x17)

Now, to address your .380 vs 9mm apprehension: the bullets are a completely different shape, there's no mistaking the two. The 9mm is also considerably longer.

9mm Makarov and .380 are much closer, but there are noticeable differences here as well. The .380 bullet tip is elliptical in shape, while the Makarov bullet tip is spherical. The bullet on the Makarov is actually 9.27mm wide,with a 9.91mm case tapering slightly larger to 9.95mm at the rim. This gives the round a squatty look to it. By contrast, .380 bullet is 9.0mm wide, with a 9.5mm straight-walled case. Its appearance is more slim.

[mr.72]

Whatever. I have personally watched a very experienced shooter absent-mindedly load about a dozen .32ACP rounds into a Sig P232 magazine and didn't realize the error until it wouldn't chamber a round. There is certainly a much more noticeable difference in size between a .380 and a .32 than there is between a 9x18 and a .380.

And by the way, I never suggested this was the only reason to limit the caliber selection. Sheesh. I guess some people just HAVE to argue. OK, you win. Only a blind idiot could mistakenly load a .380 into a 9x18 magazine. How's that?

[Keith B]

Whatever. I have personally watched a very experienced shooter absent-mindedly load about a dozen .32ACP rounds into a Sig P232 magazine and didn't realize the error until it wouldn't chamber a round. There is certainly a much more noticeable difference in size between a .380 and a .32 than there is between a 9x18 and a .380.

And by the way, I never suggested this was the only reason to limit the caliber selection. Sheesh. I guess some people just HAVE to argue. OK, you win. Only a blind idiot could mistakenly load a .380 into a 9x18 magazine. How's that?

There is no reason to get defensive over someone disagreeing with you. I think you actually stated the issue in your post above, which I have highlighted.

No matter your level of experience, you should ALWAYS verify the caliber you are loading in your weapon. I have taken various caliber weapons to the range at the same time over the years and work to make sure what I am loading. Now, have I ever tried to load the wrong caliber in a gun? Yes, but the fault was MINE. Limiting the calibers you shoot to a couple of extremely different sizes does prevent you from getting them mixed up, but a little diligence in verification allows you the enjoyment of shooting various different types.

[Excaliber]

Loading 20ga shotgun shells into a 12ga and firing it is a recipe for disaster. The dude is very lucky the gun didn't kaboom in spectacular fashion.

This is a good reason to limit the calibers you have on hand. This is one reason why I only have 9mm handguns. It is easy to make a mistake. .380, 9mm, .40SW all look alike. If you are not really familiar with them then it could be a totally honest mistake to load the wrong thing.

Very true.

For folks who are in the habit of verifying the headstamp on every round as they load, this may not be as much of a concern - but I don't know anyone who does that, and, although there are visual differences between calibers, it's remarkably easy to slip a wrong round into a magazine if there are multiple caliber cartridges present. I've seen it happen too many times to believe otherwise.

I became a true believer when it happened once to me. The .40 round fired in the .45, but the new shape of the empty case was really interesting. I learned my lesson, and adapted my practices in the belief that one shouldn't waste time making the same mistake twice when so many new ones are available.

Now when I go to the range with guns in different calibers, I put out only one caliber of cartridges at one time and shoot that gun. When I change, I make sure that all of the first batch of ammo is boxed and put away, and work with only the next caliber.

This helps prevent ammo mixup errors and takes a lot of worry out of the equation.

[NcongruNt]

Whatever. I have personally watched a very experienced shooter absent-mindedly load about a dozen .32ACP rounds into a Sig P232 magazine and didn't realize the error until it wouldn't chamber a round. There is certainly a much more noticeable difference in size between a .380 and a .32 than there is between a 9x18 and a .380.

And by the way, I never suggested this was the only reason to limit the caliber selection. Sheesh. I guess some people just HAVE to argue. OK, you win. Only a blind idiot could mistakenly load a .380 into a 9x18 magazine. How's that?

Guns should not be handled absent-mindedly, regardless of how experienced the shooter is. If you're afraid of having similar calibers because of absent-mindedness, I'd suggest expending the effort ensuring you remain focused when handling firearms.

Regardless of how many reasons you have for keeping only to 9mm, your statement implied that mistakenly loading the wrong round was a major reason. I stand by my opinion as expressed earlier in the thread. When I go to the range, I don't dump all my boxes of ammo out on the bench and pick the caliber rounds out as I need them. They stay in the box until they are ready to use. I check to make sure I am taking ammo from the proper box before I start loading up mags, and keep different calibers on separate parts of the bench.

I have loaded the wrong round into a gun once - it was a .40 in a .45 pistol. I was a novice at the time and did not own any handguns - I was trying out different guns in anticipation of buying one. I was given the incorrect caliber by the clerk at Red's. Being a novice, I did not know the difference by appearance between the two rounds when I was given them, and the boxes given to me were not marked. I learned that day to check my ammo and know what I am shooting. It did not deter me from having different caliber guns, but rather motivated me to be diligent in proper handling of my firearms.

[mr.72]

your statement implied that mistakenly loading the wrong round was a major reason.

I implied no such thing. You inferred it.

[NcongruNt]

your statement implied that mistakenly loading the wrong round was a major reason.

I implied no such thing. You inferred it.

Perhaps I did. My opinion still stands.

So what are some major reasons for only having 9mm handguns?

[WildBill]

Trying to use incorrect ammunition for a firearm is not just a mistake made by novice shooters - many experienced shooters have accidently loaded the wrong round in a firearm. Making sure that you pair the proper ammunition with the correct gun requires constant diligence, the same as making sure that your finger is off the trigger and your muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

Especially for those of you who like foreign military rifles, there are many variations and varieties in rifle cartridges. Checking to verify compatibility of rifle ammunition is just as important as for pistols.

[NcongruNt]

Whatever. I have personally watched a very experienced shooter absent-mindedly load about a dozen .32ACP rounds into a Sig P232 magazine and didn't realize the error until it wouldn't chamber a round. There is certainly a much more noticeable difference in size between a .380 and a .32 than there is between a 9x18 and a .380.

And by the way, I never suggested this was the only reason to limit the caliber selection. Sheesh. I guess some people just HAVE to argue. OK, you win. Only a blind idiot could mistakenly load a .380 into a 9x18 magazine. How's that?

Just to be clear here, I wasn't getting "defensive" in my post. I can't find anything in there that would indicate that I was. I was simply expressing my difference of opinion, and gave specific technical reasons why I did so. Never did I suggest it was the "only" reason why you choose to keep only 9mm handguns - though as we have already discussed, I did "infer" that you seemed to have it as a major reason - something I have since corrected in a follow-up post. You have not denied that suggestion, only stated that you made no such statement.

In the discussion of the technicals directly related to this post, I cited specific reasons why I believe that this should not be a limiting factor in choice of firearms, and you are as free to disagree with me as I am with you. I do not take constructive criticism as a personal attack, nor do I make my own critical statements as such. If you can give me solid reasoning to believe differently, I welcome your input. Simply pointing out that others have made mistakes because they did not pay sufficient attention to what they were doing is not a proper reason for me to limit the diversity of my own firearm collection, but rather reinforces my belief that one should always focus on the task at hand when handling firearms and ammunition, and eliminate habits that could put oneself in jeapordy.

If you want to call this arguing, then you are welcome to do so. I call it a civil discussion of opposing views. I'm not trying to "win" here. We are all here for positive discussion of firearms and CHL-related issues, and to learn from the experience of others. "Winning" would imply that individuals participating in a discussion are at odds for dominance over one another, and that is not what we do here.

[NcongruNt]

Trying to use incorrect ammunition for a firearm is not just a mistake made by novice shooters - many experienced shooters have accidently loaded the wrong round in a firearm. Making sure that you pair the proper ammunition with the correct gun requires constant diligence, the same as making sure that your finger is off the trigger and your muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

Especially for those of you who like foreign military rifles, there are many variations and varieties in rifle cartridges. Checking to verify compatibility of rifle ammunition is just as important as for pistols.

I agree that loading an incorrect round into a gun is not a mistake only made by novices. I stated that telling the difference between calibers (upon inspection) would be. Someone experienced with particular rounds would know the difference when identifying the rounds before loading them. Not paying enough attention to what one is doing is the common mistake in these situations, not the inability to tell the rounds apart. I think that a push for "constant diligence" - as you stated - is more practical and beneficial in ensuring firearms safety, rather than recommend people not get similar caliber guns. The emphasis on diligence when handling and loading firearms carries over to preventing mistakes in many more areas than just mistakenly loading the wrong round into a firearm.

[Oldgringo]

I never tried it but I wonder how a 28 ga shotshell would work in a 20 ga. Anybody know?