Scary situation last night

[jeeperbryan]

First off, lemme say hello. I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I've enjoyed all the info I've gotten from this site.

So yesterday I had to work late until about 12:45am. I live close to downtown Dallas so am going south on 75. I exit Mockingbird as usual and the first thought that pops into my head is the possibilty of a homeless person being on the corner.

Normally, this would not bother me. BUT, I drive a Jeep Wrangler. I had the top down and the doors off. Anyone that drives a Wrangler understands how vulnerable you are with the top and doors off. Vulnerable to the elements, wind, insects, and bad guys. Homeless people can be mentally ill sometimes so I'm wary of them when I'm exposed. So I pull up to the light and to my left is a guy on a bike with his girlfriend. Behind them is a car full of highschool/college kids. To my right are 2 scary looking guys. In the middle of the day this would not have scared me as much, but I've seen enough episodes of Cops and First 48 to know that Dallas is dangerous at night. I have my Kel-Tec P3At wedged between my seat and the console. I felt very nervous so I slowly reach down and load one in the chamber. I never carry one in the chamber because I am so paranoid about an accidental discharge. This is probably my mistake, but I still haven't grown comfortable with the idea of carrying loaded. Especially relying on the long trigger pull as the only safety. Anyway, regardless....

So I put one in the chamber, place it in my cup holder and pray for the light to turn. In the meantime, the car of highschool/college kids have lowered all their windows and started heckling the couple next to me. Whistling and yelling. I don't turn and look for fear that they'll start on me.

Well, light turns green and I turn left along with the car of punks. The scary guys on the right of me go straight so they're no longer an issue. As I'm making the turn I see a kid throw his plastic bottle at me. Misses and hits the back of my jeep. I still try to avoid eye contact and act as if I dont even notice. At this point I'm sweating and really nervous. I'm trying to drive slower so they'll just pass me, but they make it a point to stay right with me, heckling me the entire time. Calling me all kinds of names, etc. So I speed up to get away from them and they pull in behind me right on my tail. Honking and flashing, I think they were trying to get me to pull over into the parking lot on our right and start something. So I keep driving and eventually they do turn into the empty parking lot. I continue home, unload my gun, and do my best to sleep.

Even this morning I'm still a little shaken up. I've never been so afraid for my life. They didnt physically harm me or anything so I did not feel justified in exposing my weapon. Maybe it's all the Cops and First 48 I've been watching, but I am scared to try driving at night with the top and doors off now. I'm also reconsidering my carrying style of not keeping one in the chamber. I feel like if something were to have happened last night, my weapon would have been worthless had I not loaded one. So I'm thinking I may start looking at a new CCW that has some safety features that I'm comfortable enough with to start carrying loaded (besides a long trigger pull). Any suggestions?

[longtooth]

1. I own a Kel-Tec 3AT. It is a looooong way from my weapon of choice when in a high threat area such as you described & knew the possibilities.
2. Always carry loaded. If you need it you will probably not have time to load.
3. As soon as the bottle was thrown you should have called LEO.
4. Glad it worked out & you are unhurt.

[Glock 23]

bet you'll roll with one in the chamber now

[TDDude]

Since I wasn't there, that makes me eminently qualified to comment. :)

College/High School kids are generally harmless. I used to get hassled quite a bit on my motorbike back in the day. I usually just waved back at them and laghed it off or I just drove off. Staring them down is usually all it would take. This was back in the 80's so no gun.

Make sure you don't read to much into this. I'd hate to see you go to jail for shooting a bunch of un-armed yutes for no reason.

But like I said, I wasn't there so that makes me an expert.

[dude]

I continue home, unload my gun, and do my best to sleep.

As well as carrying with one in the chamber, you might consider leaving it loaded all the time... might need it at home, too.

[fm2]

I'm also reconsidering my carrying style of not keeping one in the chamber. I feel like if something were to have happened last night, my weapon would have been worthless had I not loaded one. So I'm thinking I may start looking at a new CCW that has some safety features that I'm comfortable enough with to start carrying loaded (besides a long trigger pull). Any suggestions?

That's good to hear you are making a change based on your experiences. Your handgun could have very well been usesless, if you couldn't get a round chambered. The long triggerpull & comfort level can be overcome with training. I recommend getting to a handgun 1 class to build your skill level and your confidence.

[anygunanywhere]

This is constructive in an anygunanywhere sort of way.

Since you have made the decision to carry a rock instead of a firearm, be certain and place some more rocks and some bottles that you can throw the next time someone picks you out as a target. This makes as much sense as carrying a semiauto without a round in the chamber.

The only time having to rack a round into the chamber works is in Hollywood. This is reality, not TV.

A KT P3AT is one of the pistols I carry and I have one in my pocket almost constantly.

Just to repeat what has been said untold times, keep your booger hooks off of the bang switch and the handgun will not fire. Keep it in a holster that covers the trigger. I use a DeSantis Pocket Nemesis.

There are other options. When I drive with my KT in my pocket either Mrs. Anygun's S&W 642 is in the console or one of my 1911's is secured between the seat and console.

Fear of not being prepared must overcome your fear of negligent discharge.

Familiarity with your equipment will overcome your fear.

You handled this one okay. Your statement about being exposed in your Jeep is an issue. At least put the doors on at night.

Anygunanywhere

[PUCKER]

I feel your "pain" so-to-speak - as I currently have the top and doors off of my Jeep, so I understand the situation you are in. I think one key mistake (besides not having a round in the chamber) was not making eye contact - based on what you described it sounds like you were an easy target and you gave off the impression that you were an easy target. I'm not knocking you - but it seems like the "utes" spotted someone that was too easy - maybe an acknowledgement of their presence and a look of "I can put all of you over my knee and give you the whipping you need" would've been enough of a deterrant for them to move on. Just throwing that out there. I typically keep a nice, long (4D cell or 5D?? can't recall) mag lite in between the seats as well...it makes a good persuasion stick. Also remember that you've got a high clearance vehicle, you can easily make a quick exit over a curb, up an embankment with your Jeep.

[KC5AV]

While eye contact may have diffused the situation, it might have also escalated it. I've seen what pack mentality can do to a group of young people.

[M9FAN]

This is constructive in an anygunanywhere sort of way.

Since you have made the decision to carry a rock instead of a firearm, be certain and place some more rocks and some bottles that you can throw the next time someone picks you out as a target. This makes as much sense as carrying a semiauto without a round in the chamber.

The only time having to rack a round into the chamber works is in Hollywood. This is reality, not TV.

A KT P3AT is one of the pistols I carry and I have one in my pocket almost constantly.

Just to repeat what has been said untold times, keep your booger hooks off of the bang switch and the handgun will not fire. Keep it in a holster that covers the trigger. I use a DeSantis Pocket Nemesis.

There are other options. When I drive with my KT in my pocket either Mrs. Anygun's S&W 642 is in the console or one of my 1911's is secured between the seat and console.

Fear of not being prepared must overcome your fear of negligent discharge.

Familiarity with your equipment will overcome your fear.

You handled this one okay. Your statement about being exposed in your Jeep is an issue. At least put the doors on at night.

Anygunanywhere

Good post!

[jeeperbryan]

All your thoughts/ideas are appreciated I've grown up around guns my entire life. However, the idea of carrying a gun for self-defense is relatively new to me, last year or so. I've always been taught to treat every gun as if it were loaded, check and double check the chamber of any gun you are handed, don't point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot, and don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. So I'm going to have to get accustomed to carrying loaded. To do this though, I need to be more comfortable with my carry weapon. Frankly, I'm just not comfortable with the Kel-tec. I've been racking my brain about it and I simply have no comfort level with the P3AT. The "safety" of a long trigger pull or the reliablity of the weapon. So I think I will start looking for a new gun with some additional safety features!! Possibly the XDSC, 2000SK, or PPS.

Thanks for all your advice. I drive the Jeep because I enjoy having the doors and top off. I'm not gonna put them on every night because you have no idea what a pain it is. So to avoid that type of situation in the future I will 1) Be moving to suburbia in the next month (not related to this incident) 2) Will not drive in sketchy areas at night with my Jeep configured this way


As far as the eye contact goes....I don't think it would have been a good idea in this situation. I think it would have only antagonized them. There were 4 to 5 of them and 1 of me. So even if it was Stonecold Steve Austin in the Jeep I don't think they would have cared.

[KBCraig]

All your thoughts/ideas are appreciated I've grown up around guns my entire life. However, the idea of carrying a gun for self-defense is relatively new to me, last year or so. I've always been taught to treat every gun as if it were loaded, check and double check the chamber of any gun you are handed, don't point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot, and don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. So I'm going to have to get accustomed to carrying loaded.

If you're not comfortable with carrying a loaded gun, then you really haven't taken to heart the idea of treating every gun as if it's loaded. Think about it: you treat a gun you know is loaded differently from one you know is unloaded but "treat as if it's loaded".

I've been racking my brain about it and I simply have no comfort level with the P3AT.

Would you feel differently if it was a double action revolver? Many revolvers have shorter and/or lighter triggers than the P3AT.

[Wildscar]

I've always been taught to treat every gun as if it were loaded, check and double check the chamber of any gun you are handed, don't point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot, and don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. So I'm going to have to get accustomed to carrying loaded. To do this though, I need to be more comfortable with my carry weapon. Frankly, I'm just not comfortable with the Kel-tec. I've been racking my brain about it and I simply have no comfort level with the P3AT. The "safety" of a long trigger pull or the reliablity of the weapon. So I think I will start looking for a new gun with some additional safety features!! Possibly the XDSC, 2000SK, or PPS.

To steal the quote from HighVelocity’s Sig. I hope he doesn’t mind too much.

I am scared of empty guns and keep mine loaded at all times. The family knows the guns are loaded and treats them with respect. Loaded guns cause few accidents; empty guns kill people every year. -Elmer Keith. 1961

[LarryH]

If you want to stick with .380 auto, there's a Beretta Cheetah in the Firearms (for sale) area.

The advantages over the KT are:

greater size and weight, so easier to handle, but still easy to conceal
13-round mags
slide lock
decocker (wife wants me to emphasize this feature)
safety

You can carry it with 13 + 1, hammer down, safety on.

I used one for my CHL class. It was my wife's first actual carry gun until she found a Browning BDA, which is essentially the same design. Then I probably would have used it for carry, but bought a CZ 75 D compact 9 before my plastic arrived. We then gave the Beretta to her son when he completed his CHL class.

If you think you might be interested, look at the thread -- includes pictures.

[PUCKER]

jeeperbryan - I hear ya, you've gotta do what you feel is right in the situation, it sure is easy to "armchair quarterback" these things from behind a computer screen. If you're set on a .380 you might consider a Walther PPK, a buddy of mine has one that he carries with him all the time. I've not shot it but I can attest to its lethality, it's has at least one confirmed kill (crackhead broke into the WRONG house, when confronted he unsuccessfully tried to attack my buddy). I've got a Colt Pony Pocketlite (sp?) .380, it's a nice piece but I recall that they are not being made anymore, but it's a thought for you (you can find one used if desired).