Learned my lesson about "one in the pipe" today

[RoyGBiv]

-No, I didn't call the police. I wasn't sure what they could have possibly done at that point since the perp was long gone. Also, I never took my gun out of the holster and it was never visible, so I didn't worry about getting called in myself. Should I have?

Based on your description of events, I would definitely have called the police.
It's possible (likely?) from your description of the perp that local LE would know who you were talking about. It sounded to me as if this would not have been the first time LE would have interacted with the guy. At minimum, given your location and a good description (sex, age, height, clothing, etc), a local search would have turned him up for questioning. Given that you had 2 witnesses that also felt the danger, there was little (zero?) risk of any repercussions on you for how you managed your weapon.

Just my $0.02, but after an episode like that I would want the cops alerted. I'd feel pretty badly if the guy just moved on to his next victim and I did nothing to get the police involved before it happened.

ETA: Also.... It's not unheard of for an aggressor to call 911 after being "threatened" by someone like you. Being the first to call 911 makes you the "victim" in their eyes. Doesn't hurt to call 911 and establish the facts from your perspective before someone else calls and makes you out to be the bad guy.

[Steamboat]

Great post and thanks for sharing!

[SewTexas]

sounds like you were a good "missionary" to your co-workers.

If you are comfortable with your gun, then it's enough. consider carrying an extra mag. that's what I do for my LCP.

[ELB]

Wow, I think you did great! Congratulations.

Now that you've had time to calm down and really think about what happened, I think you would find it useful to look through the information in this thread: Avoiding Criminal Assaults -- Presentation at 17th TCHA Conf

This is a strategy and some tactics for dealing with exactly the sort of situation you encountered. You already know the first couple steps of this; I think having experienced this event for real, you will see some other tactics that make sense and will help you if you ever are faced with this again. I don't know where you live, but there are chances to practice this with others in the Austin area, and this will be a great chance to work in it and other things as well: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=72051&hilit=avoidin ... al+assault" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is a .380 caliber enough gun? I would prefer a 9mm, but more important is that you are able to recognize whether or not there is a threat, be able to avoid/evade it if possible, the degree of response you should provide if you can't, be able to access the right weapon (from fist to pepper spray to knife to gun) when needed, and finally to be able to reliably and accurately place bullets on the threat until he's not a threat any more. If you are comfortable with your Sig, it is absolutely reliable, you can access it when needed, and can put enough rounds on target with it, then it is enough gun. I would be more concerned about limited capacity than caliber.

Again, you did great.

[MoJo]

And you better believe my little p238 is cocked and locked today.

Which leads me to another question, am I carrying enough gun?
I can shoot the heck out of the p238, but I am limited by caliber and round count.
I have learned that if it is too large, I won't be able to carry it every day.

Suggestions? Or is this a topic for another post?

Depending on the definition of "enough gun" it looks like you had plenty. My definition of "enough" gun is a .38+P or 9mm DA or DAO. My EDC is a Taurus 605PLY .357 Mag and a Glock 17 or 19 or an S&W M&P 40 or at very rare occasions a 1911 .45. All are carried on my person the snubby in a pocket holster and the bigger guns IWB. I don't particularly like to carry a gun with a manual safety it's one more thing to do while under stress and I have seen folks well trained on the use of manual safeties fail to turn them off under stress. Give me a point 'n shoot any day.

My friend and fellow warrior Col. Phil Torres, USMC Ret.a long time 1911 fan carries a Glock 19 because of its size, magazine capacity, and simplicity.

As I said before define "enough" your P238 was enough that day and hopefully, there won't be another. If there is another time, will it be enough?

[Excaliber]

Thanks everyone for the support. I think I've finally calmed down.
I ended up making a trip to the shooting range to blow off some steam.

To answer the questions:

-No, I didn't call the police. I wasn't sure what they could have possibly done at that point since the perp was long gone. Also, I never took my gun out of the holster and it was never visible, so I didn't worry about getting called in myself. Should I have?

-My coworkers were shocked by what the situation. One of them actually said "Wow, I can't believe how well you handled that. I probably would have let the guy approach me instead of stopping him when I felt uncomfortable." They asked several questions about why I carry, the process to get a CHL, and we talked a little about training and situational awareness. I also talked to them about how important it is to not make it public knowledge that I carry, etc.
I was glad they were supportive. I then told them (firmly) they needed to read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker, and then pass it to their wives.

And you better believe my little p238 is cocked and locked today.

Which leads me to another question, am I carrying enough gun?
I can shoot the heck out of the p238, but I am limited by caliber and round count.
I have learned that if it is too large, I won't be able to carry it every day.

Suggestions? Or is this a topic for another post?

Take a look at a Springfield XDs in 9mm. It's not too much bigger than the 238, delivers a lot more oomph to deserving parties, and has a grip safety that you don't have to think about and can't forget to turn off.

[Kommander]

I am new here and this is the first post I read. I am already learning valuable lessons. I think you did well and you may have made two new CHL holders in the process.

[The Annoyed Man]

My lesson from this is, in the heat of the moment (and even afterwards) there is NO WAY I would be able to rack the slide and chamber a round. I could barely even get my credit card out of my wallet 15 minutes later when trying to pay for my drink.

No matter what, I will always be prepared from now on. My male coworkers may think I'm a crazy lady for causing a scene, but honestly, I think I did the right thing. There was no reason for that man to approach me and then refuse to stop running towards me.

Any tips for calming down?

Tips for calming down? Go burn some rounds at the range!

A guy running towards you and not stopping when told conveys a threat. I cant think of another option for you to consider other than what you did. Though he was probably a panhandler, his actions did cause concern for your 2 buddies.

I carry one in the pipe, but I still enjoy watching the Israeli "draw, rack, shoot" style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjMGLfg5uaU

And with enough practice maybe you can:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMsAvWOE ... detailpage

When he threatens to "teach you a lesson" after you command him to stop, and he continues to advance (as the guy in the OP did), it's no longer a threat, it's a promise, and he'd be staring down my gun's muzzle.

He likely backed off because he saw the OP go for her gun.

[asbandr]

Nice first post.



One question: Did you call the police and make a report?
seems to me that LE should have had a chat with the guy and you never know whether HE was calling LE to report YOU.

this. Sounds like you handled the situation well, but I agree it's better to beat him to the punch. It's doubtful that if he had ill intentions he would call on you, but if he did the first question would be why didn't you call to report the incident. Plus if he was planning something he needs to be caught before he hurts someone.
But all in all, sounds like you took care of business.
Thanks for your post, it reminds me and proves how quickly a situation can change and that you may not have time to rack it.

[Dragonfighter]

I read an article many years ago about which is the "right" carry weapon. IIRC Massad Ayoob wrote it. It was very informative and analytical to a point. He wrapped up the article with words to the effect of, "The right gun is the one you'll carry. The best, most accurate and powerful handgun does no good if it sits in a safe."

That's why my wife doesn't hear anything from me about the P3AT she carries (she used to carry a S&W Model 36) because she carries it.

Glad you're okay.

[TomsTXCHL]

@SAL OP you did great--thanks for telling!

As for "enough gun?" you actually didn't need ANY gun i.e. you didn't even expose it if I read you right, so in this case you had plenty of gun!

I'm with Dragonfighter/Ayoob:

"The right gun is the one you'll carry..."

I have the big brother to the 238, the P938 mostly just cuz I like 9mm; my wife has a Ruger LCP (tiny .380). Probably neither gun would actually stop dead a big drugged-up crazy person, but it might slow him down. Hopefully in a majority of incidents, such as the one you experienced and-we-hope-you-never-experience-again, a .44 magnum is not required...

Thanks again.

P.S. don't we all wish we performed like this guy. Wow, thanks Jim:

I carry one in the pipe, but I still enjoy watching the Israeli "draw, rack, shoot" style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjMGLfg5uaU

[baldeagle]

Which leads me to another question, am I carrying enough gun?
I can shoot the heck out of the p238, but I am limited by caliber and round count.
I have learned that if it is too large, I won't be able to carry it every day.

Suggestions? Or is this a topic for another post?

Well, it was certainly enough gun for that situation.

You're better off carrying a pea shooter than no gun at all, and plenty of people have been killed by .380's. Since your round count is small, you should carry a backup magazine (or two), but there's nothing wrong with the gun you carry.

You handled the situation very well, especially considering it was your first time. If I had any criticism at all, it would be to not wait until the attacker is 10 feet away before drawing. Prepare at 30 feet. Reach at 25. Draw and aim at 20.

[asbandr]

I have the p238 as well and have worried about whether or not it would be enough to stop a threat, especially if approached by multiple attackers. I decided to carry an extra mag. So I've got the 6 round flush mag plus one chambered and then the 7 round mag that came with the gun. The flush mag aids in concealment for me. I have been considering a 9mm and looked at the sig p290, but at this point I can't imagine carrying a bigger gun. It's hard enough to conceal the p238! But I'm sure as I get used to carrying I will get more comfortable with a bigger gun. Plus I don't want to get rid of my p238, and I can't afford another gun on top of that right now.

[Excaliber]

I have the p238 as well and have worried about whether or not it would be enough to stop a threat, especially if approached by multiple attackers. I decided to carry an extra mag. So I've got the 6 round flush mag plus one chambered and then the 7 round mag that came with the gun. The flush mag aids in concealment for me. I have been considering a 9mm and looked at the sig p290, but at this point I can't imagine carrying a bigger gun. It's hard enough to conceal the p238! But I'm sure as I get used to carrying I will get more comfortable with a bigger gun. Plus I don't want to get rid of my p238, and I can't afford another gun on top of that right now.

The general rule is bigger is better - until you reach the point where it becomes difficult to conceal it or you don't want to carry it. Then go back one step and carry on.

As others have said, the P238 you always carry beats the heck out of the .44 magnum in the safe at home.

[VMI77]

I have the p238 as well and have worried about whether or not it would be enough to stop a threat, especially if approached by multiple attackers. I decided to carry an extra mag. So I've got the 6 round flush mag plus one chambered and then the 7 round mag that came with the gun. The flush mag aids in concealment for me. I have been considering a 9mm and looked at the sig p290, but at this point I can't imagine carrying a bigger gun. It's hard enough to conceal the p238! But I'm sure as I get used to carrying I will get more comfortable with a bigger gun. Plus I don't want to get rid of my p238, and I can't afford another gun on top of that right now.

Look at the P938, I find it easy to carry in a pocket or in an ankle holster. For that matter, the XDS isn't all that much bigger. I can easily carry the .45 version in a jeans pocket.