Your Conversion Experience?

So that others may learn.

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cxm
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Re: No Big

#16

Post by cxm »

Lets see... that would be 1950... that you were born....

We left MacDill in 1956.

Was your Dad in the 305th or 306th?

Lots of memories there... went to elementray school on base... you probably din't live very far from us on base either.

V/r

Chuck
wrt45 wrote:
cxm wrote:When I was in 2nd or 3rd grade the Air Force decided SAC bomber crews should be armed 24/7 so Dad, a pilot started carrying all the time as did all my friends Dads too.

Chuck
No kidding......I was born while my Dad was stationed at McDill.....56 years ago. He flew mainly B47's while there, and I remember well the .38 he used to keep with him, usually in his map case. He died two years ago, at 91. After he retired in the mid-60's I never saw him carry a handgun again.

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dihappy
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#17

Post by dihappy »

ive surely had many occasions to be able to use as "conversion" experiences.

Growing up in a rough neighborhood, i have routinely been woken up by gun fire and seen criminals running down the streets with automatics in their hands.

Just recently i was in Houston at a mall one evening and i actually felt uncomfortable walking to my car at night. There were a few thuggish guys "hanging out" and it was a new experience for me.

I dont know if it was because i was with my girlfriend or not, but you do tend to feel "responsible" for your loved ones.

Later i remember feeling grateful that i took the class and am currently waiting for my license.

I watch the evening news and am reminded how ignorant i was to walk around in condition "white".
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flintknapper
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#18

Post by flintknapper »

dihappy wrote:ive surely had many occasions to be able to use as "conversion" experiences.

Growing up in a rough neighborhood, i have routinely been woken up by gun fire and seen criminals running down the streets with automatics in their hands.

Just recently i was in Houston at a mall one evening and i actually felt uncomfortable walking to my car at night. There were a few thuggish guys "hanging out" and it was a new experience for me.

I dont know if it was because i was with my girlfriend or not, but you do tend to feel "responsible" for your loved ones.
Later i remember feeling grateful that i took the class and am currently waiting for my license.

I watch the evening news and am reminded how ignorant i was to walk around in condition "white".

Great post DH, I am pleased to see a gentleman have a feeling of responsibility for the safety of his girlfriend. I was beginning to think that actions like that were being lost more and more with each generation.

I hope that my own daughter will choose to date a young man of like mind.

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KBCraig
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#19

Post by KBCraig »

flintknapper wrote:Great post DH, I am pleased to see a gentleman have a feeling of responsibility for the safety of his girlfriend. I was beginning to think that actions like that were being lost more and more with each generation.

I hope that my own daughter will choose to date a young man of like mind.
I carry every time I leave the house (unless I'm going to work, where there are legal questions about car storage). I always feel responsible for the safety of me and mine when're we're all out in public, or when we're all here at home.

And yet... I feel anxiety and guilt that I can't convince Mrs. Me to get her CHL, and to carry. Her workplace doesn't prohibit carry (I checked the employee handbook, and it specifies "illegal possession"). But, because of the physical nature of her job (hot and sweaty, with uncomfortable uniforms), she would be unlikely to carry on her person at work. She doesn't have a great track record of always locking the van while at work, so I don't want her to rely on "travelling" to carry in her vehicle.

(The most serious crime in that part of town is vehicle burglary, and I wouldn't want to arm a thief. We live 7 minutes from her job, and the route is a suburban FM, then an interstate frontage road; no stops.)

I especially feel that twinge of duplicity when I slip on my pistol to take my daughter to the mall. I feel obliged to be armed, because I love her and want to protect her. And yet, I'm not even getting out of the vehicle on the 15 minute round trip; but, I'm turning my beautiful 16 year old babygirl loose in the mall for 2-3 hours, with nothing more than a cell phone.

Okay, a cell phone and the fighting ethic of a cornered cat; she's a girly girl, but she has nails, and she grew up with an older brother. She doesn't fight fair. Exactly like I would hope!

She stays inside the mall until one of the parental units calls her to come out to be picked up. I believe she's taken to heart our admonishment that it would be better to die resisting being forced into a vehicle, than to die after suffering "whatever".

If she could carry, I'd feel sorry for anyone who presented a deadly threat to her, if he offered a target larger than a 6" falling plate at 15 yards. She's a great natural shot. First time she ever held a pistol (at 14), she dropped eight plates as fast as she could swing to the next target. The she declared that she wanted a pistol "just like Mom's. But purple!"

It is a dilemma. We who are protectors, cannot always be there. Those we love and protect cannot always have the same tools we would prefer that they have.

We look at the big picture and weigh the risks. We pray, and then we trust.

Kevin

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#20

Post by longtooth »

Welcome aboard dh. Good post. Many of us live in the less than desirable neighborhoods, though few in one as rough as you grew up in. We hope your inititative & work ethic to care for your loved ones will also prosper you financially enough to get into a better living area.
Good post KB. Remind me to watch but never shoot against here. Man that would be tough headlines the next day. 16 yr old Annie Oakley imbarrasses all men a ABC Turkey Shoot. :lol: Stick you chest out Dad. ;-)
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RPBrown
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#21

Post by RPBrown »

Good post Kevin,

I have always been around guns. Dad, Granddad and uncles were all hunters. I got my 1st rifle at Christmas when I was 6. Single shot 22 (still have it and will pass it down to oldest grandson).

I was always intrigued by pistols, but it took me gettig robbed at gunpoint in 1972 to get my first.

Although I was late in getting my CHL, I always at least had a shotgun in my vehicle.

After the 1st grandchild was born I started to pay more attention to what was happening in our world. It was then I realized she would need to be protected. I decided to get the CHL and carry every day. Eventually even talked my wife into it although she only carries when shopping.

Now, my last child will take here class on Sept. 9th. That makes all 5 kids, 3 spouses, Nonnie and Pawpaw that are there to protect all 6 grandkids.
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longtooth
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#22

Post by longtooth »

What a glorious post. Wife & Mom are part of the armed citizenry. I am still weighting on the day the 2nd generation gets past "I know I need to" & does it. Good job PawPaw.
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gamboolman
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#23

Post by gamboolman »

I grew up with guns and hunting/fishing from earliest memories. When my wife and I lived in Lubbock while attending college (early 1980's), my wife was walking home from Tx Tech in midafternoon, and some guy slowed down and invited her into his car. He then opened his door and continued telling her to get in his car. My wife started running and this guy chased her in his car. She hid outside our house but could not make it inside. He looked for her and then he left. When I got back from work that evening (roughneck) I was of course angry. My wife could not give a good description of the car or the guy as she was too upset.
Bought her a S&W 38 to carry in her purse from then on which was of course illegal then.
As soon as Texas got CCW I got my permit.
We moved a lot since I work in the oilfield and had CCW in Alabama, Louisiana, and now again back in Texas.
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GlockenHammer
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#24

Post by GlockenHammer »

My defining moment started the first time a trash can in my back yard got knocked over in the middle of the night and my dog, whom we had recently lost, was not there to bark and growl and snarl. I realized how much comfort my dog had given me, but I also realized how helpless I really was against any kind of an armed attacker(s). Even the dog could be shot.

I began to have nightmares of bad people doing horrible things and I was powerless to stop them.

My wife could not have been more adamant that there would be no guns in the house. One of her students had been killed by an unloaded gun whose trigger was pulled in jest by a friend playing a joke.

I decided that my peace of mind was more important and bought my first handgun, along with a gun vault for safe storage and fast access.

The rage my wife had when she found out I had a gun in the house has been unmatched in our many years. However, she has softened over time and now has a CHL of her own (and her own gun).

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Re: No Big

#25

Post by wrt45 »

cxm wrote:
Was your Dad in the 305th or 306th?
I don't know how I missed your response, but I just saw it this morning. I honestly don't remember which group he was in, without looking through his things in my office. I was just a little kid when we left McDill for Montgomery. It seems like a lifetime ago............

dihappy
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#26

Post by dihappy »


Great post DH, I am pleased to see a gentleman have a feeling of responsibility for the safety of his girlfriend. I was beginning to think that actions like that were being lost more and more with each generation.

I hope that my own daughter will choose to date a young man of like mind.

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks Flint, and Long

Your making me blush :oops:

Fortunately, i have moved out of that neighborhood and am even on the verge of starting my own business. But i wont ever forget the way my neighborhood "used" to be. Still lots of good people living there. Times have changed :(

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All started with a bb gun....

#27

Post by jbenat »

I think the real conversion was 9/11/01 but I have been around and used guns since I was a little kid. We used to be the terror of the neighborhood with our BB guns, mostly hunting rats.
When I was a little older my parents & I lived in Kerrville, Tx. They, along with some of their friends would picnik on the banks of the Guadalupe River. There would be many pistols & rifles of large & small cailiber there to plink turtles, snakes & floating beer cans in the river. I got to shoot the 22 rifles. The pc crowd will be shocked to know that their was a little alcohol and gun powder mixed in, but knowone ever got shot, believe it or not.
We lived for a time in South Oak Cliff in the fifties. We never even bothered to lock our doors back then. I wouldn't try that now. In fact now days we live in a very nice neighborhood and I make sure the doors are locked and I have several guns stratigically placed around the house.
My wife & I both got our CHL last year and we both carry daily. We know we live in a different world than what we were brought up in.
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Third time was the charm.

#28

Post by amcit »

I think it took me three “conversion experiences� before I became serious about getting a CHL and starting to carry. First a shooting outside my house, then an attempted strong-arm home-invasion, then a threat of imminent shooting.

Background facts:

I grew up in the Midwest, in a culture where every house has a cabinet full of rifles and shotguns. (Oddly enough, I used to find knives a little spooky.) Handguns, however, were simply not a part of my experience. My grandfather used to carry a revolver when taking his business receipts to the bank, but I only learned about that after his death, in my 30s.

I don’t have a moral problem with responding to criminal aggression with appropriate violence. I’ve been practicing various kinds of martial arts for over 20 years, and it’s been useful. Handguns weren’t part of my toolbox firstly because they weren’t part of my mental landscape—no role models or mentors. Secondly, when I did think about them, I dismissed the thought due to expense and concerns about storage, concealment, and availability of training and practice facilities.

First serious experience: random shooting nearby

After grad school, I moved to another city. I’d been living in the university part of down for about a year when I heard a shot fired in the street right in front of my house. I saw the individuals involved, and police response to my 911 call was good. The 12 gauge that lived in my closet was a comfort, but the event was still a definite pulse-quickener and probably my first brush with deadly force.

Second: attempted home invasion

A few years later, in a different part of the same town, I was walking home with my girlfriend from the grocery store. We both had our hands full with bags of groceries. We met a young fellow sitting on the steps to our back porch. I made polite inquiries, and was met with surly belligerence. I shepherded my GF up the front steps, accompanied by this young man continuing his incoherent ranting down my neck. We stepped inside, I closed the door, and was just commenting to her about what a wack-job the boy was when our front window crashed in.

I yelled for her to get clear and call the police, I opened the door (French door, didn’t want to eat the glass panes), and I stood in the doorway. I didn’t want our new friend getting past that choke point—and there he was, coming at the door with a thin 1’ x 5’ plank in his hands. He focused on me, dropped his plank, and started walking forward like he was going to walk right through me. It was at this point I noticed the freely-bleeding cut on his forehead, and guessed he’d head-butted the window to break it. I met him at the threshold, and stiff armed-his shoulder. We stood there at the threshold, just sorta braced, while he huffed and puffed, blood running down his face from his cut, each breath spattering a little blood on my front. Time slowed, my vision tunneled, and my hearing faded out. I found myself focusing on his throat and thinking about its future if he started to shove past me. Weirdest damn thing.

I finally found my voice and started using it—and it worked. I backed him away from the door, off the porch, and down the steps a ways. I kept yelling at him to get down, get down (back down to the sidewalk). In whatever state he was, apparently ‘get down’ meant to take a runner’s start position. He’s on toes and fingertips, and I’m getting ready to receive a charge, when he finally notices his blood now splashing on the deck in front of him. Looked to me like he started to get shocky about then—this was when the police cars rolled up.

The police took him across the street and laid him down on the boulevard as the ambulance arrived. I don’t recall whether I or my GF were offered medical attention. The police used a whole variety of standard interrogation techniques to try to get me to say I’d hit the fellow—which I never had. (He had it coming, I wish you _had_ hit him, anyone can see it would be out of character for you, I know you had to, it’s fluke, etc.) They seemed annoyed that I hadn’t let him step across the threshold so they’d have a better case for burglary. I figured that him reaching inside was good enough, and certainly his blood entered our home.

I later got a letter from the prosecutor’s office that this guy got convicted of some minor misdemeanor, I think it was low-grade trespass.

This was a pretty stressful experience. I spent months rehashing it with myself and second-guessing. The main take-away messages I got from this were a) never let the guy get in that close, b) never turn my back, c) never let him that close to the house, d) if he –is- that close, maybe it’s worth it to let him get one step inside the house, and e) consider upping the level of my response.

Third: “I’m gonna blast you!�

The clincher for me was a few years later. Same city, downtown, November evening, standing in the rush hour crowd at the bus stop waiting for my lift home. I’ve got my workout bag over one shoulder, my briefcase slung over my other shoulder, and I’m reading a book to pass the time. When I read in public, reading the material stays below eye level and at about half extension, and I do keep checking my surroundings. It was while doing this that I saw a group of young people coming up the sidewalk from my left. I stepped back to let them pass, to the chain link fence separating the parking lot behind me from the sidewalk the crowd was on. I gave the little crew one glance over as they neared me. The guy bringing up the rear was a bit beefy, little over six feet, wearing one of those puffy jackets I associate with sub-freezing temperatures and snow, not a 50-degree autumn evening. He focused on me, and at about two steps’ distance he changed his direction and took a step toward me, smacked a fist into a palm, and yelled “BOOM!�

I had no idea what brought this on, but I decided this was ‘game on.’ He took another step forward and I raised both my hands to eye level, fingers extended, and stepped into his line. This changed his mind about coming forward, and he ducked and bobbed away off to his left side as the rest of his friends scattered and reformed. Suddenly I had this younger guy and girl in my face, talking a mile a minute about why I had to go and be like that, why I had to hit his boy, etc. I lost track of the others in the group at this point—tunnel vision again—as I quietly explained to these two that I’d never touched him. Major eye contact with these two, and I think my demeanor was probably too calm for the circumstances.

Then I noticed Beefy regrouping about 20’ down the street to the right, pulling up his jacket with one hand and pawing at his waistband with the other. “I’m gonna blast you!� he called to me. Oh well, I thought to myself. No way I can outrun this—too burdened, dressed wrong, too crowded, too tired. I felt sad more than anything, and just looked in the eyes of the two up front, then back to Beefy to see what I could work with. They all seemed to lose a little confidence, and the front boy turned to the other, patted his chest, and told him to forget it and that they should get out of there. They bobbed on down the sidewalk, with one or two backward glances.

After I lost sight of them was when I became conscious of the adrenaline kicking in. For a minute or two I kept doing a scan of the area to see whether they were circling back. Finally I figured the hell with that, and walked two blocks over to take a different bus. Didn’t take that route for months after that either.

After-action ruminating included What if he’d drawn? What if I’d been carrying a firearm? What triggered the encounter? How can I keep my vision from tunneling? How should I try to manage contacts with 6+ people? How should I try to manage witnesses during and after?

Within a few months I owned my first handgun, and within a few more I was licensed to carry it concealed.

I had been making trips to a local range for a few years with a friend who was a former police officer. Great place—good selection of rentals.

Life’s been a lot better since then. Just carrying, I’m more aware of my surroundings.
My friend had been teaching me the basics of gunhandling and marksmanship, and continues to coach me. (Mindset is something I’ll always be working on.) More lessons have come from him and a friend I met through him, another former police officer and ex-military man. (The Tueller Drill was especially eye-opening.) I miss those guys—they’ve done a lot for me, and continue to even though I now live in Texas. :smile:
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RPBrown
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#29

Post by RPBrown »

KBCraig wrote:In my family, it was just a matter of confirmation, not conversion.

I first got to squeeze the trigger on a .22 rifle when I was three. I'd been to the range often before then, well before my first memories.
I was 6 when I got my first 22 rifle. A single shot that I still have and still shoot from time to time.

Started to carry about 25 years ago after getting robbed at gunpoint while working on a chiller inside a fenced in area. Have carried ever since. SHH, no CHL at that time but don't tell anybody.
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pbandjelly

Re: Third time was the charm.

#30

Post by pbandjelly »

bburgi wrote:sheep dogs to the remaining sheep in the world.
:lol:
yeah, I don't think so. I'm not a cop, it's not my job to protect and serve.
I'll help a brutha out, but I am no sheepdog....
amcit wrote:I don’t have a moral problem with responding to criminal aggression with appropriate violence. I’ve been practicing various kinds of martial arts for over 20 years, and it’s been useful. Handguns weren’t part of my toolbox firstly because they weren’t part of my mental landscape—no role models or mentors. Secondly, when I did think about them, I dismissed the thought due to expense and concerns about storage, concealment, and availability of training and practice facilities.
oddly enough, I think you just described me, as well! hahaha.
it's amazing how, even sitting on heightened awareness, an interaction of this kind can just completely change your whole outlook.
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