Its not worth it.....

[Beiruty]

Hotleadsolution,

It is still not justified to use force in response to verbal threat (verbal assault). As such PC9.04 does not apply here, it was intended clarify the response to a physical assault and battery,

[ELB]

Had he gotten out and said he was coming to assault me, he would've been proned out and arrested/detained for assault by threat until local LE could pick him up. I would just hope a well meaning person (cop, CHL, MPA) doesn't shoot an off duty LEO for proning some guy out at gun point roadside....

By the way you phrased that, I am assuming you are not in a uniform that the "well-meaning person" would recognize as a cop -- so maybe it's not the optimal choice to try to arrest him, out of uniform and on your own in someone else's jurisdiction?

I am not trying to be "smart," just that I have read up on several of the cop-on-plainclothes-cop shootings, and I don't know that risking your hide to arrest some knucklehead who's shooting his mouth off in traffic is worth it, no matter how much he deserves it. (Altho the look on his face when he first realizes what he just stepped into would be interesting )

Were I an off-duty/out-of-uniform/out-of-district cop who observed a serious crime that threatened imminent injury or death to the citizenry (like the shooter at that mall in Utah), yeah that's worth mounting up and riding for, but for lesser stuff -- maybe be the good witness, keep an eye on the guy, call the local constabulary, be prepared to move in if he starts actually attacking you or someone else.

I keep thinking about that cop on long island in plain clothes and badge, with slung rifle. He was on his own turf even, talking to his own fellow officers who recognized him, when he got blasted by a cop from another agency. All after the original incident was over. Such a waste.

[fulano]

Is6tt Could have been that you were on the phone. That sometimes sets people off if they are so inclined.

[koolaid]

There was a good discussion on 9.04 as it applies to CHLs a couple of years ago here. Worth a read.

[threeg45]

Just one thing that I have not seen in this post. The other driver made a threat to come to your vehicle, you made the move to present your firearm, he decided to rethink his actions now he has the opportunity to call 911 and report that you pulled a gun on him. Now you are the one that the police are looking for. In my opinion you should have called 911 to report the incident to protect yourself.

[Hoi Polloi]

The way I understood it, once the aggressor stopped and appeared to be getting out of his vehicle, the OP had his hand on his holstered gun. The aggressor decided to leave and the gun remained in the holster. The OP would have drawn and fired if the aggressor came through the OP's window or door. Did I misunderstand?

[Mr.ViperBoa]

Me personally, I hate stupid drivers. People who think they own the road and can do what they want when they want. I cant stand people who want to fight on the road even more. Most are just talking smack and every time i have ever come across that situation and have gotten out to call their bluff, they have driven away. Of course I am not exactly a little guy when I get out either. All that being said I think you did what was right and I think your instincts would have led you down the right path if in deed the situation would have got worse. I have never been much of a person to back down from any one and it is some thing I have slowly taught my self over time since I carry now. Blood pressure pills help to lol. I guess I would have done about the same as you did. Everyone always throws out scenarios about well did you do this or could you have tried this...blah blah blah! Its going to be different for every person and there is no right answer in most cases except to not be there, but you cant control that either. I think you did right considering the surroundings and where you were at. Bravo my friend.

[sugar land dave]

Road rage is way too common in Texas cities these days. Glad it work out OK for you.

[johnson0317]

Me personally, I hate stupid drivers. People who think they own the road and can do what they want when they want. I cant stand people who want to fight on the road even more. Most are just talking smack and every time i have ever come across that situation and have gotten out to call their bluff, they have driven away.

Not really a good option for you anymore. You need to get that (somewhat satisfying) habit out of your system. If you do this, and you are carrying, and it goes lethal...you are going to become the girlfriend of someone named "Killer".

[Kythas]

The way I understood it, once the aggressor stopped and appeared to be getting out of his vehicle, the OP had his hand on his holstered gun. The aggressor decided to leave and the gun remained in the holster. The OP would have drawn and fired if the aggressor came through the OP's window or door. Did I misunderstand?

That's how I understood it.

My understanding of the Castle Doctrine is that deadly force is justified if a person enters, or attempts to enter, your vehicle unlawfully and with force, or removes or attempts to remove you from your vehicle unlawfully and with force.

SECTION 1. Section 9.01, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subdivisions (4) and (5) to read as follows:

(4) “Habitation” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.

(5) “Vehicle” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.

SECTION 2. Section 9.31, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (e) and (f) to read as follows:

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor [himself] against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;

(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.

(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

So, according to this, deadly force is not justified unless and until the guy would have opened or attempted to open the car door, or possibly even reach through the window. I would say if he were banging on a closed window that would also qualify, as I would take that as him attempting to enter, unlawfully and with force.

[A-R]

There was a good discussion on 9.04 as it applies to CHLs a couple of years ago here. Worth a read.

Everyone who thinks PC 9.04 is an airtight defense against charge of intentional failure to conceal or even aggravated assault really needs to read the thread that koolaid links to above and this even older thread

viewtopic.php?t=1262&start=0&postdays=0 ... +mcdermott" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ed4032]

Sometimes people just go off for no reason. Just angry people. I had that happen to me. Long story short the Garland Swat team showed up and hauled him to jail.

[Dave2]

Sometimes people just go off for no reason. Just angry people. I had that happen to me. Long story short the Garland Swat team showed up and hauled him to jail.

That there is some serious shortening.

[Mr.ViperBoa]

Me personally, I hate stupid drivers. People who think they own the road and can do what they want when they want. I cant stand people who want to fight on the road even more. Most are just talking smack and every time i have ever come across that situation and have gotten out to call their bluff, they have driven away.

Not really a good option for you anymore. You need to get that (somewhat satisfying) habit out of your system. If you do this, and you are carrying, and it goes lethal...you are going to become the girlfriend of someone named "Killer".

Thats not going to happen...Trust me. Besides, since I started taking blood pressure meds. I havent had any issues any way.

[Syntyr]

So I was driving my red Tacoma on I820 West, and this guy wanted to merge in front of me. So I sped up and kept him out of my way. He told me I'm "da best." I told him his car was awesome. I stopped to get out and thank him, but he grabbed his chest like he was having a heart attack, so I got out of there.
J/k

HEHEHEHE. Yeah and I used my finger to tell him he was Number "1" in my book!