CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[Ameer]

Who sinned?

- Jim

Las Vegas is called Sin City for a long time. With the inquest and news report, I think Christians would call this sinning to be breaking the ninth comandment. Maybe the sixth comandment too.

[seamusTX]

Except, as of now, I'm not sure I want to hear the outcome of the civil suit, since it will also be held in LV.

State court and federal court are as different as "Looney Tunes" and "Twelve Angry Men."

- Jim

[baldeagle]

Here's a thought exercise for the curious. According to the 911 tape, the sequence of events was as follows: 14:16 Mosher issues his first command. Erik is walking past him with his back to Mosher. 14:18 Mosher fires two shots. The commands Mosher issued (heard on the 911 tape, not based on witness testimony which wildly varied) were as follows: "Put your hands where I see them! Drop it! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!"

Now get three people together; one to be Erik, one to be Mosher and one to be a timer. Have Erik walk past Mosher from behind him. Have the timer hit the stopwatch as Mosher issues his first command. Have Mosher issue the exact same commands. Have Erik turn toward Mosher immediately. Have the timer loudly yell "STOP!" when two seconds is reached. Then ask yourself, what chance of survival did Erik have?

[OldSchool]

Except, as of now, I'm not sure I want to hear the outcome of the civil suit, since it will also be held in LV.

Federal court and state court are as different as "Looney Tunes" and "Twelve Angry Men."

- Jim

But isn't this to be a civil suit? IIRC, the rules for civil suits vary from state to state, including what the judge can and cannot direct.

[seamusTX]

But isn't this to be a civil suit? IIRC, the rules for civil suits vary from state to state, including what the judge can and cannot direct.

I don't know what the Scott family's legal strategy will be.

Usually when the results of the state investigation are unsatisfactory, they file a federal civil rights lawsuit.

I'm not even pretending to play a lawyer on TV in this case.

- Jim

[baldeagle]

I just listened to the 911 tape about 10 times, counting seconds each time. Here's the sequence:
First command - start timing
First two shots - just short of 3 seconds
Third shot - just short of 5 seconds
Fourth through seventh shots - just short of 6 seconds

[seniorshooteress]

I think the shareholders of Costco stock are going to be losing some of their dividends - sorry for them - but hope enough people stop shopping there to really make a dent in their profits. I know I will never spend my money in one, and telling everyone I know to boycott Costco. Prices aren't that much cheaper anyway.

[VMI77]

I believe very little of what Costco employees testified to. They claimed that Erik claimed he was a Green Beret. I doubt seriously that he ever made that claim. Erik's reputation was one of scrupulous honesty. They claimed that he was "agitated" and "angry", yet not one customer who observed him in the store testified to that. Their descriptions were "irked" and "irritated". (I suspect more than one member of this forum might feel the same way when challenged on the right to carry.) They testified that he was loud and upsetting other customers. Yet customers who testified that they walked right past Erik never even noticed that there was the supposed argument that he was engaged in. One customer said he heard Erik say, "Well I can do that in Texas", a fact to which not one Costco employee testified. I suspect that in the civil trial, the Costco employees will be systematically ripped to shreds by the Scott's attorney. At some point, the Loss Prevention Officer, one Shai Lairly, decided to call 911. At that point, Erik's fate was sealed. Lairly continually escalated his narrative to the point that the police had no choice but to believe that they would be confronting an agitated, gun-carrying, drugged up and completely unpredictable subject. If Costco had any sense at all, they would dismiss Lairly today. It might help to limit their liability. My sense is that Costco will defend him to the hilt, because other Costco employees have backed up his testimony on the witness stand.

Can't find any fault with your analysis. I would not be surprised to find that the employees were coached by the company and its attorneys to both coordinate their "testimony" and to eliminate any "testimony" that could incur liability for Costco. I would also not be at all surprised to discover that there was collusion between the prosecutor and Costco. It was clear from the outset that the process is designed to produce a particular outcome, not to discover the truth.

[philip964]

I believe we all here treasure all the rights in the constitution. The second amendment probably being one of our favorites. However, most of us would agree that the first amendment is probably the most basic and most important. The freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are so important that no country could be considered free without them.

Today in a unexpected move. Costco's lawyers tried to ban peaceful protest and picketing on public property in front of one of its stores (you guess which one). A motion was brought before a Las Vegas judge to do just that. The motion also named one hundred people by name who were to be specifically banned. The list was not made public but was thought to be made up of facebook friends of Erik Scott's memorial page.

The judge rejected Costco's motion outright (even though again it was a one sided argument again, maybe they were feeling cocky after their apparent victory this week and thought all judges would just lay down)

So I applaud this judge in Las Vegas.

And begin to wonder about the sanity of the executive management at Costco. This sort of path, where you try and silence the American public from free expression, will eventually back fire in a big way.

God bless America

[puma guy]

I believe we all here treasure all the rights in the constitution. The second amendment probably being one of our favorites. However, most of us would agree that the first amendment is probably the most basic and most important. The freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are so important that no country could be considered free without them.

Today in a unexpected move. Costco's lawyers tried to ban peaceful protest and picketing on public property in front of one of its stores (you guess which one). A motion was brought before a Las Vegas judge to do just that. The motion also named one hundred people by name who were to be specifically banned. The list was not made public but was thought to be made up of facebook friends of Erik Scott's memorial page.

The judge rejected Costco's motion outright (even though again it was a one sided argument again, maybe they were feeling cocky after their apparent victory this week and thought all judges would just lay down)

So I applaud this judge in Las Vegas.

And begin to wonder about the sanity of the executive management at Costco. This sort of path, where you try and silence the American public from free expression, will eventually back fire in a big way.

God bless America

I agree whole heartedly, but I don't think Costco really cares. Do you have the judge's name or any other details; possibly a link?

[VMI77]

And begin to wonder about the sanity of the executive management at Costco. This sort of path, where you try and silence the American public from free expression, will eventually back fire in a big way.

God bless America

My guess is that Costco's executive management is liberal and anti-gun. Or perhaps I should say, they act like they're liberal and anti-gun.

[Hoi Polloi]

I believe we all here treasure all the rights in the constitution. The second amendment probably being one of our favorites. However, most of us would agree that the first amendment is probably the most basic and most important. The freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are so important that no country could be considered free without them.

Today in a unexpected move. Costco's lawyers tried to ban peaceful protest and picketing on public property in front of one of its stores (you guess which one). A motion was brought before a Las Vegas judge to do just that. The motion also named one hundred people by name who were to be specifically banned. The list was not made public but was thought to be made up of facebook friends of Erik Scott's memorial page.

The judge rejected Costco's motion outright (even though again it was a one sided argument again, maybe they were feeling cocky after their apparent victory this week and thought all judges would just lay down)

So I applaud this judge in Las Vegas.

And begin to wonder about the sanity of the executive management at Costco. This sort of path, where you try and silence the American public from free expression, will eventually back fire in a big way.

God bless America

It looks like they're coming out at the upper levels of policy makers for the company now. Before, we could say it was a young, inexperienced, and rogue security guard. Now, they're actively and publicly defending him and going much further in stating that Costco does not support your constitutional rights--any of them--if they infringe on their profit. That's the ringer for me.

[puma guy]

I was looking for information on the recent court ruling on Costco and Las Vegas and ran across yet another "justified" shooting in the Las Vegas area (Henderson). Same County. A 42 year old ice cream truck driver was shot and killed after her husband called her at to the scene of a traffic stop for his ice cream truck. Deshira Selimaj came and brought her two children. She was shot after police stated she pulled a knife and held it to the throat of one of her children. The Clark County Coronor's inquest ruled it justified as they have for every shooting but one since 1976. After filing a wrongful death suit the family received an out of court settlement of $700,000.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/au ... was-leave/
As long as Las Vegas keeps pulling in the bucks I guess they can keep shooting civilians. We'll have to wait for results from Erik Scott's civil action and Trevon Cole's as well.

[blue]

K-Mart got real anti-gun for a while. Look at them now,( compared to say 40 years ago).
The 'anti-' type of people in charge, obviously have a great many other mental weaknesses in addition to the anti-gun, and that is a real personal self block to real true success. The company can only suffer in the long run.

Of course they never learn and the stockholders are left holding the bag.

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Prayers to the Scott family.

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I still believe that if the cops had NOT showed up -Erik would have got in a car and left with NO crimes committed, And still be alive!

[i8godzilla]

I believe we all here treasure all the rights in the constitution. The second amendment probably being one of our favorites. However, most of us would agree that the first amendment is probably the most basic and most important. The freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are so important that no country could be considered free without them.

Today in a unexpected move. Costco's lawyers tried to ban peaceful protest and picketing on public property in front of one of its stores (you guess which one). A motion was brought before a Las Vegas judge to do just that. The motion also named one hundred people by name who were to be specifically banned. The list was not made public but was thought to be made up of facebook friends of Erik Scott's memorial page.

The judge rejected Costco's motion outright (even though again it was a one sided argument again, maybe they were feeling cocky after their apparent victory this week and thought all judges would just lay down)

So I applaud this judge in Las Vegas.

And begin to wonder about the sanity of the executive management at Costco. This sort of path, where you try and silence the American public from free expression, will eventually back fire in a big way.

God bless America

I agree whole heartedly, but I don't think Costco really cares. Do you have the judge's name or any other details; possibly a link?

http://www.lvrj.com/news/judge-denies-c ... 99494.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Judge denies Costco request to ban protesters

By DOUG MCMURDO
REVIEW-JOURNAL

Comments posted on the social network Website Facebook and its page in memory of Erik Scott have prompted Costco Wholesale Corp. to go to court in an unsuccessful bid to keep protesters away from one of its Las Vegas stores.