Had my first "incident" since getting my card a decade ago

[Humanphibian]

Trust me if there had been room and/or time to retreat.....I would have. At the point I jumped from the ladder I was less than two feet from a workbench, with the extension ladder blocking my retreat around the front of the SUV. It was him between mee and the garage door. Fiancee was across the SUV on the line with 911 when he arrived, and retreated across the alley with my sister. My brother in law was at the scene and ready to assist, but it was unecessary.

Sound that would have been a perfect time for a Dukes of Hazard hood slide.

Seriously though. There are several times that I found myself in the middle of encounters such as this. Your alive and that’s priority one. Don’t dwell or beat yourself up for the actions taken. We can all sit here and be tactical keyboard commandos but in the action you don’t have the time to think though every possible action. One more thing that might make thing more sticky. Post about all this on an open forum for all to see might not be a good thing. If you do have another encounter(which I would bet my ridiculously low salary is coming) and this one turns deadly this post might be used against you somehow. Just a thought.

I am posting about this IN CASE something happens. Everything up to the event on Tuesday (and now that as well) are well recorded by numerous parties. I have my notes, my Fiancee has hers, as do my sister and BIL. All of us have been targets of his aggression. We have all gotten the texts, v-mails, phone calls etc. We have all been friends for some time, including the guy in question, so the people still "in the group" in his eyes are the persons orchestrating his demise. In addition, FPD has a TON of info on the guy, none of which is good. He is on a downhill slide, and acts accordingly. This seems to put him in the presence of LEO's on a regular basis, and they are not good contacts.

My intent with posting this is to get some intellectual input, along with viewpoints and opinions from those that have delt with this before, or have knowledge in this type of thing. It is hard to gather the scope of everything from "inside the storm" I want this event disseminated on every point, suggestions offered, mistakes pointed out, critisisim given....all in an effort to better educate/prepare myself. If I posesses more information and knowledge from the analysis of this event, it will only help me in the future. I see this as a good thing.I AM NOT looking for people to point out "I would have blown him away if it were me!!", or "if he does it again.....". Other people would surely have delt with it differently, I want MY actions reviewed. Things are FAR clearer already, however at the time I started the thread, I was still dealing with the adrenaline high, and it was difficult to see the whole picture.

There are some very valuable resources within the membership of this board. All of it happens to be available at my fingertips....I plan on utilizng it. There are some very knowledgable persons offering solid advice, along with some very good suggestions, and things that can be pointed out by looking in from the outside.

I will work on putting together an overview of the entire deal, including the situation for the past few months that have led to this point. I seriously doubt that I am the first, nor will i be the last that deals with this sort of thing. I invite everyone to take a look and openly discuss any and all aspectes of it. If the discussion around this gives me, or someone else even the smallest bit of useful info.....it will have well served its purpose.

[bdickens]

I second the motion on De Becker. please read his book. This guy sounds like he is a bomb waiting to go off.

[Wildscar]

Trust me if there had been room and/or time to retreat.....I would have. At the point I jumped from the ladder I was less than two feet from a workbench, with the extension ladder blocking my retreat around the front of the SUV. It was him between mee and the garage door. Fiancee was across the SUV on the line with 911 when he arrived, and retreated across the alley with my sister. My brother in law was at the scene and ready to assist, but it was unecessary.

Sound that would have been a perfect time for a Dukes of Hazard hood slide.

Seriously though. There are several times that I found myself in the middle of encounters such as this. Your alive and that’s priority one. Don’t dwell or beat yourself up for the actions taken. We can all sit here and be tactical keyboard commandos but in the action you don’t have the time to think though every possible action. One more thing that might make thing more sticky. Post about all this on an open forum for all to see might not be a good thing. If you do have another encounter(which I would bet my ridiculously low salary is coming) and this one turns deadly this post might be used against you somehow. Just a thought.

I am posting about this IN CASE something happens. Everything up to the event on Tuesday (and now that as well) are well recorded by numerous parties. I have my notes, my Fiancee has hers, as do my sister and BIL. All of us have been targets of his aggression. We have all gotten the texts, v-mails, phone calls etc. We have all been friends for some time, including the guy in question, so the people still "in the group" in his eyes are the persons orchestrating his demise. In addition, FPD has a TON of info on the guy, none of which is good. He is on a downhill slide, and acts accordingly. This seems to put him in the presence of LEO's on a regular basis, and they are not good contacts.

My intent with posting this is to get some intellectual input, along with viewpoints and opinions from those that have delt with this before, or have knowledge in this type of thing. It is hard to gather the scope of everything from "inside the storm" I want this event disseminated on every point, suggestions offered, mistakes pointed out, critisisim given....all in an effort to better educate/prepare myself. If I posesses more information and knowledge from the analysis of this event, it will only help me in the future. I see this as a good thing.I AM NOT looking for people to point out "I would have blown him away if it were me!!", or "if he does it again.....". Other people would surely have delt with it differently, I want MY actions reviewed. Things are FAR clearer already, however at the time I started the thread, I was still dealing with the adrenaline high, and it was difficult to see the whole picture.

There are some very valuable resources within the membership of this board. All of it happens to be available at my fingertips....I plan on utilizng it. There are some very knowledgable persons offering solid advice, along with some very good suggestions, and things that can be pointed out by looking in from the outside.

I will work on putting together an overview of the entire deal, including the situation for the past few months that have led to this point. I seriously doubt that I am the first, nor will i be the last that deals with this sort of thing. I invite everyone to take a look and openly discuss any and all aspectes of it. If the discussion around this gives me, or someone else even the smallest bit of useful info.....it will have well served its purpose.

I did not intend to take anything away from this post. I was just commenting on a nother aspect. I do agree that it is a good topic to discuss. I thank you for sharing.

Another Idea that I thought of last night. If you are working the Garage like this again keep the door opener in your pocket. That way you could hit the buttom from anyway inthe Garage. I know they go slow but its just a thought. IT would give you a couple more seconds.

[Humanphibian]

Funny......I had it! Didn't even have time to THINK about closing it. I even had it in one of the little cell phone pockets of my cargo shorts so I didnt have to put my hand in my pocket....just press my thigh. I am telling you it happened FAST.

[Wildscar]

Funny......I had it! Didn't even have time to THINK about closing it. I even had it in one of the little cell phone pockets of my cargo shorts so I didnt have to put my hand in my pocket....just press my thigh. I am telling you it happened FAST.

Ok now you just need to buy a cheap ol flat bed cart that will hold all his stuff. When he calls to tell you he is comming you can just open the door, push it out and close. Tell him that it will all be somewhere between the Garage door and the where ever it stops. Should take you all of about 30 seconds.

[KBCraig]

Another Idea that I thought of last night. If you are working the Garage like this again keep the door opener in your pocket. That way you could hit the buttom from anyway inthe Garage.

Easily defeated. All you have to do is step through the safety beam, and it will reverse. Or grab the closing door and shove up with about 20 pounds of force, and it will reverse.

[Wildscar]

Another Idea that I thought of last night. If you are working the Garage like this again keep the door opener in your pocket. That way you could hit the buttom from anyway inthe Garage.

Easily defeated. All you have to do is step through the safety beam, and it will reverse. Or grab the closing door and shove up with about 20 pounds of force, and it will reverse.

I understand that but what that does is delay the inturder long enough to maybe allow the home owner to get in the house.

[Excaliber]

Another Idea that I thought of last night. If you are working the Garage like this again keep the door opener in your pocket. That way you could hit the buttom from anyway inthe Garage.

Easily defeated. All you have to do is step through the safety beam, and it will reverse. Or grab the closing door and shove up with about 20 pounds of force, and it will reverse.

I understand that but what that does is delay the inturder long enough to maybe allow the home owner to get in the house

Both members have good thoughts here.

The tactic is good in that it attempts to introduce a barrier to rapid intrusion. Its effectiveness would be determined by how far down the door had gone by the time the intruder reached it, and how quickly he was able to to go through his OODA loop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_Loop). Unless he reached the door while it was almost fully open and he could solve the situation unconsciously by walking through the safety beam, it could easily give the homeowner several extra seconds to move his plan along and just might end up with the BG locked outside and staring at a closed door.

It also beats the heck out of just leaving the door open.

[Humanphibian]

I need to get time to research the POD idea. They are storage vaults that are dropped off at your location, then you fill them. When you are ready....they pick them up and deliver to their yard for storage. When ya get ready....they bring it back to ya to unload, reload...etc.

I figure I can pre-pay it for 2 months, and have the key delivered to him via cert mail, UPS, Fed-Ex etc. If he chooses not to take the contents out....they can auction off his stuff. I just need to make sure they wont hit my credit or anything if it goes up for auction due to the bill not being paid or something.

If it will work out lke this, I can keep him totally away from the residence, and not have to have any contact with him personally whatsoever. It also puts him in charge of his stuff....not me!

Any thoughts??

[Wildscar]

Sound like a great idea to me. However I dont think you areoing to be able to keep him totally away. But it will take that excuse away from him. Since you are willing to pay for he should not be able to comlain that you are trying to keepit form him. Resaerch would be your friend here. I would even call and speak to someone in person to make sure you know all the little things that go into it.

[Humanphibian]

This situation happed in the county adjoining ours....less than 90 days ago! It is hard NOT to see the smilarity. In fact we have repeatedly reminded authorities about this incident, and how it seems to mirror thepath we are traveling.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/w ... 11ad9.html

[Excaliber]

I need to get time to research the POD idea.

I think you'll find the POD solution relatively expensive. A similar effect could be achieved by simply renting a local storage unit, putting the stuff in it, and mailing him the key to the lock via certified mail w/return receipt. This shouldn't create a credit problem if you pay for the period defined in the rental agreement, which typically contains language for what happens to goods left in storage units whose agreements have expired without extension and payment, but it would be worthwhile to check the details with the storage company before going this route.

A simpler and almost certainly cheaper solution would be to make an arrangement with a small local truck outfit to pick it up from you at a certain date and time and deliver it to him at a certain date and time. Provide him with several days advance certified mail w/return receipt notice of the delivery and the trucking firm's contact info in case he needs to make other arrangements and let him worry about being there when it arrives. Include in the letter that only one delivery attempt has been paid for and any additional arrangements and charges for redelivery or storage will be his responsibility or his goods will be disposed of according to the trucking firm's policy for unclaimed goods. Make the same arrangements with the trucking firm and include a provision to get a copy of the delivery receipt, and you should be good to go.

This situation happed in the county adjoining ours....less than 90 days ago!

This is an absolutely classic example of why I was so concerned about the circumstances in your case. I know you're not taking it lightly, and very justifiably so. The potential for a similar ending in your situation, while by no means certain, is very real.

[02transam]

i have mixed feelings to me it seems almost as if you egged on the confrontation. if you were trying to avoid confrontation you could have picked any number of public places in which to do the exchange and wouldnt have to worry about putting your loved ones in danger. the fact you didnt use deadly force when you had every right speaks volumes but at the same time being armed and in a scuffle greatly impaired your ability to properly defend yourself. if your going to carry it you shouldnt hesitate about using it when confronted as such. the outcome could have been a whole lot different.

[Humanphibian]

i have mixed feelings to me it seems almost as if you egged on the confrontation. if you were trying to avoid confrontation you could have picked any number of public places in which to do the exchange and wouldnt have to worry about putting your loved ones in danger. the fact you didnt use deadly force when you had every right speaks volumes but at the same time being armed and in a scuffle greatly impaired your ability to properly defend yourself. if your going to carry it you shouldnt hesitate about using it when confronted as such. the outcome could have been a whole lot different.

I honestly didn't think it would be a physically confrontational situation. An argument...sure, he is a loudmouth. He is one that has to have the attention of EVERYONE around when he is not happy. It is alot like dealing with a 5 year-old throwing a tantrum....generally harmless, but annoying as anything.

He can be a good guy. In fact for the past several weeks he has been on a fairly even keel. He has made a couple of calls later in the evening, obviously after partaking in too many beverages, and tried to push either my buttons or hers, however this was nothing like it was a couple of months ago, so we paid little attention to his rants. Over the past weeks, he and I have had several friendly conversations regarding his stuff, and me assisting him with moving it when he and his girlfriend moved into a house vs. the apartment they are in now. He has standard visitation of their daughter, and pick up/drop off's whether at his house or ours are pleasant for the most part. I figured he may be peeved about me "calling him" on his little game....but didn't think he would be violent. I had my fiancee call FPD for a civil standby as a precaution and to keep him from yelling (which he LOVES to do) and generally causing a scene. He was obviously in the neighborhood when he called because he beat the police there, and he lives across town. I have learned over the last day or so that his GF may have left him, and thay may have contributed greatly to his state of mind, whether is was just rage, or chemically induced behavior.

[tarkus]

That's a great idea from Excaliber. A local trucking or delivery company would probably be much cheaper than PODS. Depending on how much stuff there is, a small local moving company (like two guys with a pickup and a trailer) could be even cheaper.