Trusting your life to Kel Tec

[John F]

Just this weekend I had to renew my CHL. I have been carrying a 38 revolver but wanted to test with a SA to have both options. For my initial test I borrowed a really nice H&K .40 but this time around I did not have anything available to borrow.

I figured I'd buy something on the inexpensive side because after all this was just going to be for the test and not for carry.

My B.I.L. also picked one up for his renewal and so about 4-5 weeks ago we took our new guns to the range to get acquainted with them. Prior to going I did some research on the Kel Tec forums and did some basic cleaning and lubrication schedule before going and he did nothing but open up the box and shoot. I shot 75 rounds without any malfunctions and he had at least one malfunction every other magazine. This prompted the range guy to come over inspect the gun, proclaim it was garbage and suggest he return the gun for something else. (one test he did was to slam the magazine in at full force to see if the slide would release and chamber the first round) it did not...and he said any gun that does not is "junk". Later I read the slide release should hold even with a forceful mag insertion so I'm not sure who is right on that point...

Anyway we cleaned up his gun and went back the next weekend where he reduced his malfunctions to 2 out of 100 rounds and I again had 0.

We figured the 2 he had were probably limp wristing as cleaning/lubrication the gun had a significant impact on its reliability. I talked to a few more people who all said it should not be necessary to do anything to the gun and anything that does not shoot "out of the box" is garbage. Along this time somebody said, "I would not trust my life to a Kel Tec". Yet because mine is 100% thus far I have to think the problems were not the gun itself.

To keep it short(er) this process went on for a few more range visits and then to yesterday when we both shot our 50 rounds for CHL renewal with 0 malfunctions...however our instructor mentioned over lunch "I would not trust my life to a Kel Tec".

Here is my problem:

I have 400 rounds through my P-11 with zero malfunctions. Because 10 rounds is more than 5 and this gun carries as well if not better than the 38 I'm seriously considering carrying it.

Let me backtrack.....

When I borrowed the H&K for my first test I had a stovepipe during the test. I cleared it and that was that but that experience made me gravitate even more towards the revolver to get "6 for sure". or 5 in my case but you get the point. I had not made the decision at that time to get advanced training.

Now I'm thinking I'd like to practice much more with this P-11 and get enough confidence with it from training to handle any potential malfunctions (that I have only experienced with other guns so far) to use it as my daily carry weapon......but people keep telling me it's garbage and they would not trust their lives to it.........?

Whatda ya think?

John F

[MoJo]

I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT as a backup and a P11 is my truck gun. I trust both. I have seen brand new Kimbers, Berettas, H&Ks, XDs, and even Glocks choke right out of the box - - - Are they junk? I think not. All things mechanical needs a break in period. If after 500 rounds the gun still malfunctions then it is time to send it back or sell it. If you are comfortable with your P11, carry it.

My $.02 worth.

[nuparadigm]

Do friends let friends carry Kel Tecs?

I have a friend who has a P11 with many, many rounds through it. I've shot it a lot as well. For him, or for myself, there have never been stoppages or failures of any kind. It is an utterly reliable little weapon.

Friends do let friends carry Kel Tecs.

[AV8R]

Kel Tec seems to be making a quality pistol, well-engineered and made with quality materials. For its intended purpose, as a backup gun, it's probably better than its competition, e.g., Tomcats and NAAs, and a good choice for that. I don't believe it has the potential to be either super-reliable or super-accurate, which I want in a primary sidearm. The small Glocks, like the 26 and 27, are extremely reliable and very accurate, and better for use as a primary gun, but the performance comes with a price-tier jump. The Kel Tec was designed as a backup piece, and I think that's how it should be used.

[jbirds1210]

Whatda ya think?

Since you asked....I would carry the revolver!

I have some dear friends that own and trust Kel-Tec products.....there must be something good about them other than price.

I have never found what the rave is about. In my limited experience (1 shot = 1 type 2 malfunction) Kel-tec does not have to worry about me knocking on their door. The malfunction aside since any gun can experience that......the trigger is absolutely horrid. Cheap and light are not big selling points for me.

I have heard many say that after a few trips to the factory they are great guns while others run like a champ straight from the factory.......best of luck with yours.
Jason

[flintknapper]

If its going to be your primary gun, then at least do "full" fluff and buff on it.

http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/prep.htm

I'd recommend a steel guide rod, and then replace every polymer pin with steel (where available).

Good luck with it.

[Kantishna]

Kel-Tec.....??? I have seen some come thru my CHL classes, both P-11 and the P-32 and P-3AT. No problems! The only malfunction was a "limp wrist" on the first shot. A little instruction cured that....big strong guy too, he was a revolver shooter and had developed the habit of of a relaxed hold. I like the P-3AT and carry one. Only about 300+ rounds and has gone bang every time. Others may get different milage.

[John F]

If its going to be your primary gun, then at least do "full" fluff and buff on it.

http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/prep.htm

I'd recommend a steel guide rod, and then replace every polymer pin with steel (where available).

I left that part out but we did do the fluff and buff after about 150 rounds, and replaced 2 of the poly pins with metal (belt clip).

The guide rod I have not decided on yet...

The thing I keep thinking is what MoJo said and there is no guarantee that any given gun won't have a malfunction. I'm sure it will happen with my P-11 but no telling if it will be at round 500, 800, 1,000, +... I think if I have one malfunction per 1,000 rounds I'm going to call it pretty reliable.

John F

[mr fixit]

I had a P-40 that I carried for almost 2 years. I did the full "fluff and buff" as mentioned above before I carried it. I put maybe 200 rounds through it with no problems and then started carrying.

Is/was it reliable? Yes.

Would I carry one again, now 8 years later? Yes!

I did change to carrying a Glock 26. Why? I am an accuracy freak I guess. With the Kel-Tec I could hit a man sized target across the room.

With the Glock I can hit a head sized target across the room.

Will the Kel-Tec be "good enough"? Absolutely!

I would not feel bad about recommending it to a friend or family member. If you can shoot it, and if it has been shown to be reliable with the ammo you carry.

I did trust my life to one. I would again.

[mr fixit]

I forgot to mention that I will soon be looking for a true "pocket pistol" and the Kel-Tec P32 or P3AT is on the list to consider.

Mr FIxit

[Mike1951]

Ten years ago, I was trying to decide between the P-11 and the Kahr. I went with the Kahr, so have never used their full size handguns.

But I do own four of their 'niche' firearms and have been pleased with all.

I bought an early P32 and an early P3AT. Both required F&B and also trips to the factory. But Kel-tec's CS is excellent and both are now reliable.

Fast forward many years and I bought one of their PLR-16 .223 pistols and a SU-16C .223 carbine. They have required no tuning.

If you believe that once a firearms malfunctions, you will never be able to trust it, then maybe Kel-tec isn't for you.

But if you have some patience and know that the problems will be solved and then shoot it enough that you build trust in it, Kel-tec is a worthy option.

The P32 and then the P3AT were unique in size/firepower when introduced and still represent one of the best deep concealment options.

[Skiprr]

I bought a P3AT a few weeks ago, and in two range visits with four kinds of ammo, I successfully got four rounds to go bang.

First trip I was shooting S&B, which has a relatively hard primer. Four fired, but with them were eight additional dented primers with no ignition. Another thorough cleaning and a check to make sure the firing pin wasn't broken, I returned a week later with three different types of ammo. None fired.

I contacted Kel-Tec and they said to send the pistol back, and they agreed to reimburse my shipping expense. The pistol went to Florida the last week of February.

Being a Six Sigma kind of guy, first-run defects don't thrill me. But I really need a tiny, featherweight, mouse gun I can slip in and out of my front pocket while seated in the car. And any caliber smaller than the .380 doesn't thrill me, either. In fact, the .380 doesn't thrill me, but the smallest 9mm--Kel-Tec and Kahr--are both too large for the purpose.

So I'm hoping the P3AT comes back a serviceable tool.

[AV8R]

We figured the 2 he had were probably limp wristing as cleaning/lubrication the gun had a significant impact on its reliability.
John F

You might want to consider a primary gun which will run dirty, gritty, and wet.
In a shootout, I'm not betting on the guy with the KelTec.

[Rex B]

I have 3 Kel-tecs - P11, P32, P3at. all are reliable. 1 FTE in hundreds of rounds fired, and that I attributed to a dirty gun. Much powder fouling, probably the ammo I was using.

the P3AT is my daily carry, and I trust it to go bang when I need it to.
Same with the others.

As for your P11, 400 rounds with no failures is about double what the 'experts' recommend to qualify a new gun for carry. I'd say you are good to go.

Rex

[Thane]

I have, tucked away somewhere, a little "piece o' junk" - a Jennings J-22. Compared to this little bit, Kel-Tecs are practically on a level with Kimbers.

At one point, I was practiced enough with this little Saturday Night Special that I could put five rounds in three seconds into a space I can cover with my hand at 7 yards, with no jams or malfunctions. Using the same ammunition, same magazines, other folks had 2 rounds jam out of three, and two-foot shot patterns, instead of groupings. It was reliable for me, not for them.

I'm not that practiced now, but given time and sufficient ammo, I could become proficient with that little pistol again.

I'd not worry about a Kel-Tec's reliability, unless it -really- stank. I just don't want one, mainly because I prefer heavier pistols for recoil management.

(I carry a Kimber, btw. There's just something about .45 ACP... )