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Gentlemen,

I am in the market for a good quality gun safe. Normally I over-research and over-analyze my purchases. But, since I have found the great wealth of knowledge that exists here on this site I figured I would pose the question to those with more experience than I in such matters. My only safe experience has come from formerly being in the jewelry business where I found that it made more sense to buy a pre-owned safe (quite a savings) from a reputable locksmith. In this case however I don't need a 2500 lb safe.

Here is my criteria based on my limited knowledge of gun safes:

I would like to be able to adjust the shelving to hold both handguns and long rifles...mostly handguns.

Good fire protection

Not too large and heavy - I don't want to have to use a sign crane to move it. My guess is that.

I might like to have a seperate locked compartment inside for documents and such

Any suggestions? Your input is appreciated.

ScubaSigGuy wrote: Good fire protection

Not too large and heavy

Depending on your definition of "heavy", good fire protection may not be viable. Unfortunatetly, weight and fire protection tend to run hand in hand...

You probably should decide how many weapons you want to secure, and the mix between handguns and long guns. My suggestion is to allow for future additions. I didn't, and I ended up with a safe that's too small.

The combination of number of weapons and fire safety time will zero you in on a range of safes.

There is Liberty Gun Safes in Garland.

http://www.libertysafe.com

They are always at the local gun shows, and have 'show deals' as well.

~Bill

I will be watching this because I would like the same thing ScubaSigGuy wants. Everything I have seen you must have a crane or a bank

carlson1 wrote:Everything I have seen you must have a crane or a bank

Or both! At least with one of the 1,200 lb. jobs you wouldn't have to worry about bolting it down.

I'm watching this thread, too. I've about decided to abandon fire protection and go with something inexpensive that will at least deter a crowbar for a few minutes, but I haven't made up my mind...

When you get out and about, and look for a "safe" vendor, I would take a few of these points into consideration...

First...

Pick a place in your home where you want to put it...Because when it gets there, thats pretty much where its going to stay...Its not a piece of furniture you're going to move, just because...Unless you move to another home...

Steve's recomendation on this...(FWIW)

I placed my gunsafe against an outer wall to my home...Mainly because if the home did catch fire...More than likely the house would burn less intensely against the outer wall than an interior position in a structure...As a firefighter, I have seen many a home burn to the slab...And those I have seen with a gunsafe in them, those safes tended to endure the conflagration a bit better against an outer wall than other posessions within the interior, obviously...

Second:

Fire Ratings: The UL sticker on some safes that have a fire "rating" are a good gauge to go buy, obviously the higher temperature and longer time posted on that sticker will give you a general idea on how well it will perform...And picking a good spot inside the home will help somewhat...

(Shoot, I've almost forgotten what mines rated at, I recall it being somewhere around a 1400 degrees for about 20-25 minutes...I believe that is sufficient for most homes, but if you can get a higher rated, and its in your price range, I'd get one better just to give you peace of mind...)

Third:

Delivery and installation...

If the vendor has a delivery service, I would let them deliver and bring it to you and inside...Check to make sure they are bonded or insured...When the day comes to get it in there, I'd help them out by moving furniture and other objects that could impede their travel and turning capability inside the home...Get the pets and kids out of the way during this process, I know its a neat thing to watch, but it is a bit dangerous to be around them while they are moving it inside...Some vendors have a neat dolly that is powered to move things upstairs/downstairs and makes it easy to do this as some safes can weigh a whole heck of a lot...Mine was about 550# empty...So there was really no way a conventional dolly would have done this...

I would honestly say that the price for delivery and setup was worth it...I had two factors in my setup...

My home is in a flood zone, and was built by a sub-contractor to the main contractor back in '67...It'll burn real good...But it keeps the rain off our heads...So I placed my safe up on a stand of 3/8" plywood sheets that sandwich 4 8" CMU (cinderblocks) which I put a decorative "duster" fringe around 2 sides that are visible here in the "office", at the insistance of "Wife Unit"...She's happy, and thats what is important...Plus this stand keeps the "carpet crush" (I hope) to a minimum...Like I said, its not going anywhere else soon...

Forth:

I would never tell someone what model to buy, because I believe they all do well for their intended purpose...

I considered a great many makes and models, and the price range for me was getting the most safe for about $750-$800 at that particular time...I didn't, and don't see a need to upgrade (for us) for a while...

I also went with a standard "tumbler/dial" type combination lock...The electronic "mylar/bubble" keypads to me seem to scream "wear on the bubble keys" and seemed more failure prone to me...I know some may dissagree, and I respect that disagreement...

In summation:

- Pick a spot in the home (everyone can agree on)...

- Get the best UL fire rating on it, if thats a factor...

- I'd pay for the delivery and setup, you'll thank me later...

- and stay "old school" on the combination (locking) system...

- also look into a dehumidifier bar (the vendor will know and recommend one if you need it, they will certainly sell you one , prices vary, but they don't break the bank)

Houston has a couple of vendors I know that make the gunshow rounds...They are straight with everyone I have ever talk to about this issue, and respect those folks coming in that consider making this choice and investment...And some will deliver quite a ways away from here as well...

Good luck in your search, and hope this long diatribe helps give you some ideas...

ScubaSigGuy,

stevie_d_64 gave some excellent info!


Additionally, you might want to check out this thread on safes on another forum:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... p?t=237280

...there are similar threads elsewhere re: safes...the topic often comes up in gun forums.

-- John D.

I'm going to go ahead and recommend my dealer, even though he's in Houston. He delivers all over Texas, so North Texas shouldn't be a problem.

http://www.safesrus.com/

He gives fantastic customer service and backs up what he sells 110%.

I don't know how often you expect to be moving, but I highly recommend paying your safe dealer to relocate your safe. Then you are free to consider a larger safe. My dealer charges a very fair rate.

I bought a 60"x30" safe about ten years ago. Last year, I added a 72"x41" 'cause I had been out of room for a long time. The 72"x41" has a heavy body and weighs in excess of 1500#. The smaller safe weighs about 750.

Safesrus used to carry several brands of safes. Some years ago, he lost his home to a fire and his personal gun collection in his home safe was destroyed. He now sells only Fort Knox and every safe he orders includes the reinforced fire door.

Fort Knox offeres two options for handguns, a rail system that mounts to the door and uses coated hooks and velcro holsters that adhere to the interior fabric. I got both. My longer barrel handguns work best hung on the rails while smaller handguns work well in the velcro holsters. When I ran out of room on the door, I also bought another set of holsters as they can be stuck anywhere on the safe interior.

The rest are on the shelf in foam pistol racks that I got from Sportsmansguide.

The fire protections on cheaper safes is typically 1200 deg /30 minutes.

The rating on my Fort Knox is 1680 deg/90 minutes.

Skiprr wrote:Or both! At least with one of the 1,200 lb. jobs you wouldn't have to worry about bolting it down.

Not always the case! The door on my Fort Knox is heavy enough that my safe will tip forward when the door is fully opened. Bolting down was necessary.

Considering how precarious my setup is, the tipping risk was a real concern with the door open and all that...

I have yet to organize any of my pistols into any shelves or holsters on the door yet...But I am kinda jazzed into looking into this idea, because I want to clear some existing shelf space inside the regular area of the safe...

Thanks for getting me to spend mo money!!!

I'm not knocking ANYone's choice of safes/brands here -- unlike some safe "experts" often do in gun forums (unless you have one of their "superior" safes of course). I'm just making an observation...

I have to admit that I don't understand a serious (higher-end with great protection/build-quality) safe having such a heavy door, heavy enough to cause the safe to tip forward...makes it sound like the body of such a safe is too lightweight then (non-serious, if you will).

Also, unless such a safe -- with a serious/heavy door -- is built-in somehow with protection (limit access to a criminal) to the other 3 sides AND the top, a criminal would just go through the sides/top. Yes, I realize that safes are built with the strongest part being the front (door) and the weakest being the other sides/top, but unless you limit someone's access to a safe to the front ONLY, that serious door isn't a whole lot of value.

In my case, my 1000-pound Liberty 25 doesn't tip forward when I open the door all the way. I wouldn't think better safes would, either.

And since I am a renter, I can't bolt it down NOR build an enclosure around it to limit access to the front (door) only...had I a house, I sure would.

For the best protection, I recommend you bolt it down AND build an enclosure for your safes...even the top-of-the-line models like the Ft. Knox Yeager series...or in my case, the Liberty Presidential series.

But I think that ANY brand of safe would greatly benefit from an enclosure around it (preferably masonry) since the front/door is the strongest side.

-- John D.

P.S. I am talking about an attack by non-professional thieves, not a professional safe-cracker who could get into it from the front fairly easily without resorting to brute-force attacks on the sides/top as would your average ignorant low-life.

cloudcroft wrote:I'm not knocking ANYone's choice of safes/brands here -- unlike some safe "experts" often do in gun forums (unless you have one of their "superior" safes of course). I'm just making an observation...

I have to admit that I don't understand a serious (higher-end with great protection/build-quality) safe having such a heavy door, heavy enough to cause the safe to tip forward...makes it sound like the body of such a safe is too lightweight then (non-serious, if you will).

I disagree. While I bought the Fort Knox Defender series, I bought the upgrade for the body to 3/16" body and 3/8" door, the very same as used in their top of the line Yeager series.

Here is the description of the reinforced fire door:

Reinforced Fire Door
Our Reinforced Fire Door adds 2 layers of fire protection to either the 3/8� or 1/4� solid steel plate, then reinforces the door with additional 10-gauge steel for added security (Over 30% thicker steel than other composite type doors). This nearly doubles the standard fire protection from 1450°F in 50 minutes to temperatures of 1680°F in 90 minutes. The Reinforced Fire Door is standard on the Yeager, Titan, Executive and Guardian Series as well as the Executive and In-Swing Vault Doors.

cloudcroft wrote: I have to admit that I don't understand a serious (higher-end with great protection/build-quality) safe having such a heavy door, heavy enough to cause the safe to tip forward...makes it sound like the body of such a safe is too lightweight then (non-serious, if you will).

Also, unless such a safe -- with a serious/heavy door -- is built-in somehow with protection (limit access to a criminal) to the other 3 sides AND the top, a criminal would just go through the sides/top. Yes, I realize that safes are built with the strongest part being the front (door) and the weakest being the other sides/top, but unless you limit someone's access to a safe to the front ONLY, that serious door isn't a whole lot of value.

...snip..

But I think that ANY brand of safe would greatly benefit from an enclosure around it (preferably masonry) since the front/door is the strongest side.

I don't know about newer safes, but the older models were shipped empty on the sides and top. After they were set in place, they were then filled with metal rods and concrete poured between the walls.

....cured the tipping problem.

I'll put another vote in for http://www.safesrus.com for a dealer. I'm not in love with any particular brand. I looked at Cannon, Fort Knox and American Security...All seemed to be high quality safes and I can't say one was any better than the others. They all offer models with similar fire ratings but I think Fort Knox does claim the highest ratings available. I don't know if they've ever been tested independently to verify those claims.

FWIW, about four years ago there was a guy who posted photos of his burlarized home. I wish I could find them now but it was a series of photos showing the side of his high-end safe cut wide open like a sardine can. There were about three dozen sawzall blades and his own sawzall laying on the floor in the foreground of one photo. Tens of thousands of dollars of guns were gone.

My only regret after I bought my first safe was not buying a bigger one. Had I known how easy it was to move a 525lb safe, I'd have bought one at least twice as heavy. My first one also had an electronic lock that malfunction once. It locked me out, which would not have been good if I'd needed any of the important papers, equipment or guns stored in it at the time. So it's tumblers only for me on all future safes. I've purchased several safes since then and all have been over 1200lbs with tumbler locks.