...and the Pendulum Swings...

[speedsix]

...I like this story...and this Chief!!!

http://www.kansas.com/2011/09/07/200493 ... ni_popular" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RottenApple]

The other day, Allen fired three shots each from a .40 caliber and a 9 mm at the police training range to demonstrate the differences. His .40-caliber barrel kicked upward six inches or so with every shot, twice as high as the 9 mm.

6 inches??? That gotta be a mistake. Right? I've got 2 .45s (a Kimber 1911 w/ 5" barrel and Sig P220 w/ a 4" barrel) and neither of them kick anywhere close to that. Neither do any of Pawpaw's 1911s, one of which has a 3" barrel.

[Scott in Houston]

I don't get this.

"The 9 mm handgun grips are easier to hold, too. The .40-caliber grip was too big to handle effectively, not only for some female but for some male officers, Allen said."

They also claim their .40 cal were Glocks. Well, the Glock 22/23/27 are the same size as their 9mm counterparts the Glock 17/19/26.
The grips are identical.

[speedsix]

The other day, Allen fired three shots each from a .40 caliber and a 9 mm at the police training range to demonstrate the differences. His .40-caliber barrel kicked upward six inches or so with every shot, twice as high as the 9 mm.

6 inches??? That gotta be a mistake. Right? I've got 2 .45s (a Kimber 1911 w/ 5" barrel and Sig P220 w/ a 4" barrel) and neither of them kick anywhere close to that. Neither do any of Pawpaw's 1911s, one of which has a 3" barrel.

...45 has less recoil than either the 9mm or .40...the .40 has a much snappier recoil...I've started my boys on .45s at 8 yrs. old...had women of tiny build and normal size shoot the .45 as their first handgun...no problems with any of them...the .45's are easy to shoot until you get to a sub-service size platform..
...this article compares the recoil of the .40 to the recoil of the 9mm...I've fired both in Glock and would choose the 9mm everytime...

[speedsix]

I don't get this.

"The 9 mm handgun grips are easier to hold, too. The .40-caliber grip was too big to handle effectively, not only for some female but for some male officers, Allen said."

They also claim their .40 cal were Glocks. Well, the Glock 22/23/27 are the same size as their 9mm counterparts the Glock 17/19/26.
The grips are identical.

...no personal experience, but I'm told the Gen 4 Glocks have a slightly smaller grips than the earlier ones, which this dept. would have in the .40s...that may account for some of it...and the S&W grip may be smaller than their .40 Glocks...don't know...

[gigag04]

The scores of most of our females improved when we loved from G22 to G21SF

[G26ster]

The scores of most of our females improved when we loved from G22 to G21SF

Got any video of that?

[speedsix]

...in my old fossil opinion...anyone who likes .38 from a 4" bbl. will do well with a .45 in a full-sized platform...I've yet to shoot a .45ACP revolver in 2" or 4"...but maybe someday...if folks will quit rattin' me out to Santa Clause...it's just a smooth-shootin' round...I wonder what DPS' scores did when they went from .45 to .357Sig...don't know any of them to ask...

[Seabear]

...45 has less recoil than either the 9mm or .40...the .40 has a much snappier recoil...I've started my boys on .45s at 8 yrs. old...had women of tiny build and normal size shoot the .45 as their first handgun...no problems with any of them...the .45's are easy to shoot until you get to a sub-service size platform..
...this article compares the recoil of the .40 to the recoil of the 9mm...I've fired both in Glock and would choose the 9mm everytime...

Well,I have to disagree with the beginning of that statement. I have a PT1911 9mm, and if I compare it to my Rock Island 1911 .45acp (both full sized), the 9mm has a lighter recoil. It is very evident in my times shooting Steel Challenge. Accuracy from both is superb, so that really isn't a factor.

I do agree that the .40 is pretty snappy, however I have only shot it in polymer framed guns. I didn't care for it.

My wife who is not an avid shooter, and never shot before she met me, finds the .45 to be here favorite when compared to a compact 9mm. She has not fired the PT1911 9mm yet, if she does she'll have a new favorite.

I have a S&W 625JM with a 4" barrel, it is a blast to shoot and you are welcome to try it if you ever make it down here. With factory 230 grain loads it is not uncomfortable to shoot, however it has quite a bit more recoil than the 1911 simply because there is no slide moving to absorb any energy.

I have to agree with the article since I have helped several women including LEOs try to gain control of their .40 cal weapons. When switched to 9mm most of their trouble went away. Sure, more practice would help, but like the article said, "most didn't use the 600 rounds alloted for practice". (that is the biggest problem) So if they aren't going to practice, you might as well hand them something they can shoot better with from the get go.

Little boolets on target beats big boolets missing every time.

ps...I prefer big boolets hitting.

[Scott in Houston]

I don't get this.

"The 9 mm handgun grips are easier to hold, too. The .40-caliber grip was too big to handle effectively, not only for some female but for some male officers, Allen said."

They also claim their .40 cal were Glocks. Well, the Glock 22/23/27 are the same size as their 9mm counterparts the Glock 17/19/26.
The grips are identical.

...no personal experience, but I'm told the Gen 4 Glocks have a slightly smaller grips than the earlier ones, which this dept. would have in the .40s...that may account for some of it...and the S&W grip may be smaller than their .40 Glocks...don't know...

Maybe it's with the S&W because regardless of generation, the frames for the .40 and 9mm are the same for Glock. If they got a grip reduction by going from one Glock to another, it would be based on going from Gen 3 to 4, but not from .40 to 9mm. I'd expect an article that focuses on weaponry to have done more research or know a little about what they're saying... too much to ask from anyone in any media I guess.

[PappaGun]

The scores of most of our females improved when we loved from G22 to G21SF

Got any video of that?

He's still thinking of Valentine's Day

[C-dub]

The scores of most of our females improved when we loved from G22 to G21SF

Mine too. Right out of the box, I shot the first 30 rounds better with my G21SF than with the last 30 rounds from my G22 I had been shooting with for 10 years.

[speedsix]

I don't get this.

"The 9 mm handgun grips are easier to hold, too. The .40-caliber grip was too big to handle effectively, not only for some female but for some male officers, Allen said."

They also claim their .40 cal were Glocks. Well, the Glock 22/23/27 are the same size as their 9mm counterparts the Glock 17/19/26.
The grips are identical.

...no personal experience, but I'm told the Gen 4 Glocks have a slightly smaller grips than the earlier ones, which this dept. would have in the .40s...that may account for some of it...and the S&W grip may be smaller than their .40 Glocks...don't know...

Maybe it's with the S&W because regardless of generation, the frames for the .40 and 9mm are the same for Glock. If they got a grip reduction by going from one Glock to another, it would be based on going from Gen 3 to 4, but not from .40 to 9mm. I'd expect an article that focuses on weaponry to have done more research or know a little about what they're saying... too much to ask from anyone in any media I guess.

...they've HAD the Gen3 or older in .40...they're SWITCHING to 9mm in Gen4...the grips being smaller than the Gen 3 were....that's what I said above...nothing wrong with what they said about it in the article...they not only changed calibers, but got the newer Gen4, instead of the older generation which was in .40...and had bigger grips(because of the generation, not the caliber)...

[Purplehood]

It is personal preference IMHO.

I have carried and used the M1911, the M9 and various .40's over the years. I prefer the .40 caliber weapons when it comes to ease and comfort of use. I generally suck at Pistol Marksmanship and prefer Rifles (I can shoot those and hit the barn), so accuracy is not an aspect that I am going to argue with in regards to caliber.

[RPB]

Wonder which S&W model 9mm the 65% chose versus the Glock 9mm.

S&W are good, but they aren't Glocks ... they'll probably have to clean them every decade or so.