glock 18...fully auto....class 3 permit....chl.....

[ru934]

hey hows it goin everyone? quick question.....if i have my chl, and i take whatever steps are necasary to aquire the class 3 permit, and then i puchace a fully automatic glock 18, would i be able to carry concealed on my person as i would any other handgun? thanks a whooole lot for any info! take it easy, rusty

[kauboy]

First of all, before I go off searching for this(because now I want to know too ), would you really find it wise to have a full auto pistol for defense?

In a time of stress/fear you would most likely fire the entire mag and probably not hit your target, now you have just sent upwards of 30 possible fliers in who knows what direction, and your threat could still be present and able.

If you are really considering doing this, I would ask you to reconsider. However if this is simply a curiosity question, I'll try to find the answer, but I'm sure somebody will beat me to it.

[Syntax360]

I would assume that this situation would be similar to the suppressed CCW question - provided you got the tax stamp for the weapon and had your CHL, I suspect it would be legal, though you would definitely be treading in a very, very grey area.

Why do you think you would need a class 3 license? Do you intend to sell full-auto Glocks, too?

Full auto would be a bad idea, IMHO, but a 2 or perhaps 3 round burst could be practical.

Oh ya - don't forget that your life would be virtually ruined if you ever had to use the thing. Everyone remember the story of the HK employee who used a full auto Ruger (i think?) on a couple of bikers who were trying to kill him and his family? That guy spent many years in court and H&K's financial backing was probably the only thing that saved his children's college funds, not to mention everything else of any financial value he owned.

[cyphur]

I think this topic is more suited to the General CHL Discussion section.....

I concur, carrying a fully automatic pistol is not what I would call wise.

However, as the law stands:

PC §46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures,
transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device; or
(9) a zip gun.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's
conduct was incidental to the performance of official duty by the armed
forces or national guard, a governmental law enforcement agency, or a
correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's
possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the National Firearms
Act, as amended.

[kauboy]

Well I did a little searching and I honestly don't believe that a "machine gun" can be carried regardless of whether you have a CHL and type 3 NFA permit. A "machine gun" seems to be a separate animal, as opposed to a silencer, within the National Firearms Act wording. And yes, since the GLOCK in question has been modified, it is considered a "machine gun".

[Charles L. Cotton]

If you have your CHL, you can carry a handgun. If you have the proper federal papers, then you can "possess" a machine gun. Combine the two and I believe you can carry a machine pistol.

I say "federal papers" because I don't believe the full auto Glocks were manufactured and/or imported into the U.S. prior to the commercial market ban in 1989. If I am correct, then the only way you can get one is if you are a Class III dealer and are using it as a demo. I'm not sure if carrying a machine pistol as a CHL would be outside the scope of a dealer demo, but that is far outside my knowledge of Class III dealers.

Chas.

P.S. Just as an aside, one of the examples I use in my seminars and classes dealing with “reckless injury to a third person� per TPC §9.05 is opening up with an MP-5 or other machine gun and hitting an innocent bystander rather than or in addition to the BG. I’m not suggesting this is what you would do, but merely possessing a machine pistol would be a problem if you did injure or kill an innocent third party, even if you didn’t use it in full auto mode.

[Popshot]

With full auto capability, will you be able to control where each round travels? You will certainly be held responsible.

[ru934]

ya, ive tried responding sev. times but im havein trouble with my comp for some reason....mostly i was just wondering out of curiosity. 90 percent chance i would never carry this weapon on self, but i would like the reasons yall have for not carrying one. the glock has a switch, from what i can tell, that you can either shoot, s.a or full automatic. which means to me you could use it as a regular handgun right.but ya, mostly wondering out of curiosity an i could not find anywere any laws stateing THE FACT of chl holder vs non chl holder concealing one an its been drivein me crasy tryin to figure it out. as for the missplaced catagory....my fault. pretty new to the forum an it looked like this was the perfect spot to post

[ru934]

ok i now see what yall mean, an no, i would not carry a full auto on self now. thanks for the answers, as i allways find them intresting. take care

[spud]

As much as I would like to carry a full-auto, belt fed, Desert Eagle...

It just does not make any since for personal protection.

[G.C.Montgomery]

If you have your CHL, you can carry a handgun. If you have the proper federal papers, then you can "possess" a machine gun. Combine the two and I believe you can carry a machine pistol.

I say "federal papers" because I don't believe the full auto Glocks were manufactured and/or imported into the U.S. prior to the commercial market ban in 1989. If I am correct, then the only way you can get one is if you are a Class III dealer and are using it as a demo. I'm not sure if carrying a machine pistol as a CHL would be outside the scope of a dealer demo, but that is far outside my knowledge of Class III dealers.

Chas.

P.S. Just as an aside, one of the examples I use in my seminars and classes dealing with “reckless injury to a third person� per TPC §9.05 is opening up with an MP-5 or other machine gun and hitting an innocent bystander rather than or in addition to the BG. I’m not suggesting this is what you would do, but merely possessing a machine pistol would be a problem if you did injure or kill an innocent third party, even if you didn’t use it in full auto mode.

I'd consider Charles opinion on the legality of carrying a machine pistol the final word unless the courts eventually contradict him. I honestly think the decision to do so offers more risks than benefits should you get into a shooting with that weapon. Speaking specifically to the purchase of a Glock 18/18C, this is not an easy thing to do.

Glock 18/18C pistols in circulation are all "post-'86" dealer samples. They can be imported for LE use and while a Class 3 dealer may legally purchase one as a sample, Glock has stated they will not sell anymore dealer samples. So the few existing samples on the market amongst Class 3 dealers, are all there will be for the forseeable future. Last I saw, they were trading amongst dealers for as much as $20,000 each. IIRC, you must also get a local agency's letterhead stating that you are purchasing the weapon as a demo for that agency. Again, not an easy feat unless you know a local chief LEO.

It's worth noting that machine pistols and some other smaller submachineguns were designed to fill a highly mission specific role. One example might be situations where the focus is breaking contact with a threat and using speed to get out of the danger zone rather than fighting to establish fire superiority and flanking an enemy in a protracted fight. In some of these missions, there may also a need for concealability. Machine pistols like the Glock18, Stechkin, and Beretta 93R fill this role.

[Renegade]

You cannot carry a machine gun under auspices of CHL.

[Charles L. Cotton]

You cannot carry a machine gun under auspices of CHL.

You may be right, but where is that in the Penal Code?

Chas.

[Renegade]

You cannot carry a machine gun under auspices of CHL.

You may be right, but where is that in the Penal Code?

Chas.

I was hoping you would find it for me.

Seriously, I know for a FACT I read it maybe 10 years ago and ignored it. Been looking recently and I cannot find it. I am now wondering if I read it in the original bill and it was stricken. I also remember in the original bill the sticker you had to put on your car. Do you remember that? That of course was stricken. I wish I could find the original bill or at least the original bill enrolled into law.

[ru934]

ya, thats what im lookin for....cold hard evidence of the sort. please share when an if you do look an succeed