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What do you guys think about this as a first gun for someone whose control over themselves (mentally, physically) but has no "real" hand gun experience?

I've shot paint balls, air guns, pellet guns all my life and am relatively good with it - but this is obviously a real gun.

http://www.the-m-factor.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm talking about the Springfield XDm - in 9mm, the 19 rd. one.

What do you guys think of this as a first gun?

Pros/Cons?

Also does anybody know if its a DAO? The stats of the trigger pull make it seem so...

TIA

BlackWidow wrote:What do you guys think about this as a first gun for someone whose control over themselves (mentally, physically) but has no "real" hand gun experience?

I've shot paint balls, air guns, pellet guns all my life and am relatively good with it - but this is obviously a real gun.

http://www.the-m-factor.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm talking about the Springfield XDm - in 9mm, the 19 rd. one.

What do you guys think of this as a first gun?

Pros/Cons?

Also does anybody know if its a DAO? The stats of the trigger pull make it seem so...

TIA

I have fired the full size XD in .45ACP and the subcompact 9mm versions of the pre-"M" model guns.

It is not technically a DAO because retraction of the slide fully cocks the striker, and the pull of the trigger releases it. It is therefore technically a single action gun, although if I didn't tell you that you wouldn't see much difference between it and other striker fired pistols except that the Springfield has a much nicer trigger pull than most because of the single action design.

The full size Springfield XDM is a very fine and reliable handgun that you should have no trouble shooting well with your prior experience with non powder powered projectile launchers. It would make a fine house gun. Many would consider it a bit big for routine concealed carry, especially in hot weather. Springfield makes compact and subcompact versions as well that you might consider if concealed carry is of interest.

I would suggest renting any gun you're considering buying at a public range and putting at least a box of ammo through it to see how it fits you and what you like and don't like about it. If you're interest includes personal defense, the Springfields are available in .40 and .45 as well, and you may find that shooting some of these more effective fight stoppers is not significantly harder than working with the 9mm.

I recommend that all beginners get a .22 pistol or revolver. The reason is cost. Unless you are wealthy, the cost of thousands of rounds of ammo adds up quickly.

You can learn to shoot well with a .22, and figure out which larger-caliber pistol you want while hanging around the range.

Remember, you do not spend money on a firearms purchase; you invest it. The investment retains value. You can pass it on to your wife, kids, or anyone whom you want to help get started.

- Jim

I agree with Excaliber. A 9mm for most any adult is a good starting place. Some say .22 but that is more for recoil and noise experience. With a gun that size in 9mm the recoil should be minimal. I have a XD9 in subcompact and the recoil on it is very controllable. I personally started shooting a Smith and Wesson 469 (9mm) and loved it. I wish I still had the little thing. If your considering a CHL and plan to use the gun for such I would go with something smaller. If you just want to get into shooting then that gun is one of the best I could recommend. I don't like the finish on the XD9 I have but if I wasn't carrying it I wouldn't know the difference. I think SA changed the finish on the "M" but I am not sure.

Enjoy and do your best to practice with whatever you choose and not just throw bullets at the paper. You can join the NRA here http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp ... d=XR020586" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if you wish to help fight for our gun rights and are not yet a member.

You are definitely going to need a 22 pistol to get enough fun and practice in. I have not shot a 22 pistol for many years but I bought another a few weeks back because of the price of ammo. I can go out and shoot all day for $20 or about 20 minutes of play with a 9mm and 215 minutes with a 45. If you think you are going to want to shoot a lot I would seriously look at a 22. If you are going to shoot seldom and want protection go with a centerfire pistol and learn to shoot it well. You will also gain a lot of skill with the 22 because of the affordability and being able to shoot that much more.

Springfield makes a good gun, I dont see where you can go wrong. But like Excaliber mentioned, rent one and put some rounds through it and see if you like it. Shoot several models so you can get a feel for what you like and dont like..


I also agree with the .22. They are a blast to shoot, and cheap.. 525 rounds for 20 bucks, compared to 20 for 50 rounds of cheap .45 ammo. Never looked at what 9mm ammo is running sense I dont own one, but it wont be as cheap as .22 ammo.....

When I go shoot, lets say my .45, I also bring a .22 revolver.. I shoot a few rounds through the .22 just in the mind set. Shoot the .45 for a bit, then back to the .22.. I also find that if I'm shooting all over the place because I'm jerking the trigger, or flinching due to the recoil, that shooting the .22 helps A LOT to get past that.. Same thing goes when I shoot rifles, my 30-06 and 300 Win mag both kick like mules. I shoot the .22 rifle for the same reason's when I shoot the handguns..

But like mentioned, if your just looking for a self defense firearm, then go shoot several, then decide. My dad bought a Springfield Ultra Compact .45 several yrs back, and for the longest time thats the gun I wanted. I had shot a few semi-auto's, but I liked his so much better.. That was until I held My Kimber Ultra Carry. I went back the next day and bought it. It was more expensive than the Springfield, but for me I just knew that I'd rather have this one.. Not to mention it's slightly smaller than the Ultra Compact, a lot lighter, trigger feel is better, recoil doesnt feel as harsh. A lot better looking too ( Stainless slide, alloy frame ) I still would have been happy with the Ultra Compact, but I'm glad I didn't limit myself to just that, and I looked around a bit.

I own an XDm, mine is one of the first 5k produced so its chambered in .40S&W. Its a great gun, I was in fact shooting it today, getting ready to rotate it into my holster. Its an accurate shooter, mine has one of the best factory triggers of any production gun I have ever shot. Either I got a perfect double today or I missed a 4'x4' piece of cardboard at fifteen yards with my second shot. The XDm is at the top of my list of guns I will always own, and with a Don's Guide rod is perfectly balanced for me.

For a new shooter I would also recommend purchasing a .22 rim fire handgun for training purposes. That doesn't mean you can't get the XDm (or something better) at the same time or at first, but you really need something you can practice with and afford to feed. Now, with that said you mention you are new to shooting so training is a must have. I don't mean the minor stuff you get from a CHL class or hunters education. I mean some real training of the basics of firearm ownership like safe storage, maintenance, operation, ect. These are skills you can not perfect without someone who is more experienced helping you. An NRA certified instructor is strongly recommended as they are trained to teach you these things while Bill from down the road may be the safest and most accurate man on the planet with firearms he probably lacks the skills needed to teach his habits and skills to someone else.

I have been around firearms and have shot for most of my life (and All of my adult life), I shoot every chance I get, I shoot every firearm I can that I feel comfortable shooting (I do not like to shoot rare, unusual, or extremely expensive firearms), and I still see where I can use more training and I want more training.

I really appreciate the feedback guys.

I listened to you all and called a local shop (in the Galleria area) and asked what all I would need to come shoot handguns? The guy said - nothing really, we just do a basic few questions to see if you know how to use and are safe with it. I informed him that I have no experience shooting guns but have shot air guns, pellet guns, paint balls and have loads of experience with those, but am nervous with a "real" handgun. I further went onto tell him that I'm specifically looking to try out a Spring Field XDm. The guy said to just come over and it'll "be fine".

I walked in nervously and went to the counter and told the guy which one I wanted to try (XDm), well they did'nt have that but did have a XD 9mm - so I asked if I could rent that and the next closest gun to that. For some reason everyone in the shop was determined to tell me that the XD 9m is a copy of the Glock 19 and that I should try and buy that one instead.

I informed them that I was starting out and really liked the external safety features that the Spring Field XDm (and XD 9) had too offer such as (in order of my preference) 1) Grip Safety, 2) The bump indicator if its got one in the chamber.... but they continued to tell me its junk and Glock is the only way to go if I wanna go with a plastic gun.

So I decided to try both the XD 9 and the Glock 19 - they asked for my ID and also gave me the XD 9 and told me to take the magazine out and pull the slide back and release one (i guess this was the test), I did so easily - this was too easy.

Anyways from my 50 shots in the XD9 and 100 shots in the Glock 19, here's what I got:

1) XD9 first shot was dead on in the center from 7 yards, all other shots were near it but not in it.
2) Loved the safety features of the XD9, specially loved the fact how you don't have to touch the trigger in order to field strip it.

3) Glock 19 felt better in my hands (i got big hands), and the pink was placed much better on the Glock 19 - but I've been told there are magazine grip extenders for the XD 9 which will solve that problem.
4) Glock 19 did NOT feel safe to me at all - no external safety what so ever! from Grip, to Thump. I'm not a fan of internal safeties, but then again that's like saying I love racing motorcycles when I only just started riding them around the block. I don't have the experience to base external safeties over internal safeties - but that's what I felt, but this may be more of a "psychological issue". Correct me if I'm wrong.

5) I'm not sure how this happened - but from my shooting on the CHL target they provided, I got more points with the XD 9 then compared to the Glock 19. Comparing 50 shots each. I did however practice on a different target with the glock 19 but for some reason I can't figure out why I was more accurate with the XD 9? I shot the XD 9 first then took a 5 minute break to analyze what I was doing, my stance, my breathing, my grip, etc etc then I took the glock 19.

Any explanations? I thought the Glock 19 was a better gun no?

Here's the kicker...

6) So I've heard that its really easy for Noobs to jam guns due to their inexperience, limp hand, etc etc. Well keeping this in mind I fired the XD 9 and the Glock 19...

the XD 9 jammed, had issues - Zero times, zip nada!

the Glock 19, jammed up twice - first time it happened i could see a casing stuck in the chamber to where the slide could'nt go back "forward" again, so I followed the rules and called for help, they came and fixed it. I asked the guy if this was normal? He said "no, these glocks are great guns...." I then said, "hey if its operator error, please tell me". He said "okay, yea its operator error, i Just did'nt want to tell you...".

A magazine later, same thing happened again - this time I just pulled the slide back and the casing came out easily. I took out the magazine and inspected to the see what's wrong with the gun. I noticed the design of the chamber and how the cartridge goes into the chamber - not too big of a fan of it, it seems like rather the magazine pushing the cartridge up and into the chamber, it looked rather like the chamber would push the back of the cartridge and would sorta force/rub the cartridge into the chamber.

Anyways, i called it operator error again - and continue shooting. I just find it funny how it never happened with the XD 9.

When turning my hand guns in a CHL instructor was there, I showed him my target and asked him if that would pass? He said - yep, I'd pass you. Looks good. He seemed friendly (but to the point) so I asked his take on the XD 9 Vs Glock, once again I was given the speech of how Glock is the superior model and how SA copied them and just added the 1911 safties.

I'm perplexed guys, and very confused. What do you guys make up of this first outing of mine?



PS: After spending $90 on testing these guns, and paying close to $15-16 per 50 ammo box of 9mm. I totally see most of your point about getting a .22

It sounds to me like you liked the XD better, but are concerned about the advice of the guy at the shop to get a Glock. Each person will have their own opinion, just keep doing exactly what you are here and try to educate yourself and make the best decision for you.

I personally own a Glock and think it's a great gun, have had zero issues with it, and it suits my needs well. I have been eyeing the 9mm XDm as well and think it's next on my list after hearing what GA had to say about it.

Basically your decision comes down to what you liked better, both guns have a reputation for being some of the most reliable on the market. In terms of caliber, for a defensive handgun I like a 9mm or bigger. Ammo won't be cheap compared to a 22, but you'll also be able to buy a decent amount of ammo for what you'd pay for another gun.

I'm assuming that you're interesting in getting your CHL as well, so you may want to factor in the size of the gun into your equation. You may think that the XDm is too large to carrying day to day, but I'm betting that we'll see Springfield roll out some smaller models relatively soon - maybe even replace the whole XD line with them.

Regarding the safeties, it comes down to your comfort level in safely handling the gun. Glocks are extremely safe IMO, only firing if the trigger is pulled. This is a feature that I look for in a carry weapon because it eliminates the need for me to swipe the safety off. That being said, the Springfield is just as safe and combines some other features. Going with the thumb safety may make you more comfortable with the gun and if you decided at some point that you didn't want to use it, you could simply leave it off and have all of the other safeties in tact.

All in all the choice is a personal one that we're more than happy to provide guidance on, just ask away. Becoming proficient with your gun is important for not only your safety but others as well. Both models that you're interested in can be sold used for close to what you'll pay for it new if you decide you don't like them. Oh, and chances are that you'll buy more than just one!

Black Widow, your concern with external safeties is a typical newbie concern. It seems like a double-action with no external safety is easier to have an accident with. Experience with literally millions of double-actions worldwide demonstrates that this is not the case.

Handling makes a firearm safe or unsafe, not mechanical features.

People have accidents with 1911s, too.

- Jim

BlackWidow wrote:I really appreciate the feedback guys.

I listened to you all and called a local shop (in the Galleria area) and asked what all I would need to come shoot handguns? The guy said - nothing really, we just do a basic few questions to see if you know how to use and are safe with it. I informed him that I have no experience shooting guns but have shot air guns, pellet guns, paint balls and have loads of experience with those, but am nervous with a "real" handgun. I further went onto tell him that I'm specifically looking to try out a Spring Field XDm. The guy said to just come over and it'll "be fine".

I walked in nervously and went to the counter and told the guy which one I wanted to try (XDm), well they did'nt have that but did have a XD 9mm - so I asked if I could rent that and the next closest gun to that. For some reason everyone in the shop was determined to tell me that the XD 9m is a copy of the Glock 19 and that I should try and buy that one instead.

I informed them that I was starting out and really liked the external safety features that the Spring Field XDm (and XD 9) had too offer such as (in order of my preference) 1) Grip Safety, 2) The bump indicator if its got one in the chamber.... but they continued to tell me its junk and Glock is the only way to go if I wanna go with a plastic gun.

So I decided to try both the XD 9 and the Glock 19 - they asked for my ID and also gave me the XD 9 and told me to take the magazine out and pull the slide back and release one (i guess this was the test), I did so easily - this was too easy.

Anyways from my 50 shots in the XD9 and 100 shots in the Glock 19, here's what I got:

1) XD9 first shot was dead on in the center from 7 yards, all other shots were near it but not in it.
2) Loved the safety features of the XD9, specially loved the fact how you don't have to touch the trigger in order to field strip it.

3) Glock 19 felt better in my hands (i got big hands), and the pink was placed much better on the Glock 19 - but I've been told there are magazine grip extenders for the XD 9 which will solve that problem.
4) Glock 19 did NOT feel safe to me at all - no external safety what so ever! from Grip, to Thump. I'm not a fan of internal safeties, but then again that's like saying I love racing motorcycles when I only just started riding them around the block. I don't have the experience to base external safeties over internal safeties - but that's what I felt, but this may be more of a "psychological issue". Correct me if I'm wrong.

5) I'm not sure how this happened - but from my shooting on the CHL target they provided, I got more points with the XD 9 then compared to the Glock 19. Comparing 50 shots each. I did however practice on a different target with the glock 19 but for some reason I can't figure out why I was more accurate with the XD 9? I shot the XD 9 first then took a 5 minute break to analyze what I was doing, my stance, my breathing, my grip, etc etc then I took the glock 19.

Any explanations? I thought the Glock 19 was a better gun no?

Here's the kicker...

6) So I've heard that its really easy for Noobs to jam guns due to their inexperience, limp hand, etc etc. Well keeping this in mind I fired the XD 9 and the Glock 19...

the XD 9 jammed, had issues - Zero times, zip nada!

the Glock 19, jammed up twice - first time it happened i could see a casing stuck in the chamber to where the slide could'nt go back "forward" again, so I followed the rules and called for help, they came and fixed it. I asked the guy if this was normal? He said "no, these glocks are great guns...." I then said, "hey if its operator error, please tell me". He said "okay, yea its operator error, i Just did'nt want to tell you...".

A magazine later, same thing happened again - this time I just pulled the slide back and the casing came out easily. I took out the magazine and inspected to the see what's wrong with the gun. I noticed the design of the chamber and how the cartridge goes into the chamber - not too big of a fan of it, it seems like rather the magazine pushing the cartridge up and into the chamber, it looked rather like the chamber would push the back of the cartridge and would sorta force/rub the cartridge into the chamber.

Anyways, i called it operator error again - and continue shooting. I just find it funny how it never happened with the XD 9.

When turning my hand guns in a CHL instructor was there, I showed him my target and asked him if that would pass? He said - yep, I'd pass you. Looks good. He seemed friendly (but to the point) so I asked his take on the XD 9 Vs Glock, once again I was given the speech of how Glock is the superior model and how SA copied them and just added the 1911 safties.

I'm perplexed guys, and very confused. What do you guys make up of this first outing of mine?



PS: After spending $90 on testing these guns, and paying close to $15-16 per 50 ammo box of 9mm. I totally see most of your point about getting a .22

Your time and effort was well spent, and you certainly made the most of it with your inquiries and questioning the validity of the store clerks' opinions. I suspect that differences in the profit margins of the two guns you examined had more to do with the recommendations you received than the characteristics of the guns themselves.

I have owned Glocks since they were first introduced to this country, and I have more recently purchased and extensively fired Springfields as well. Both are well made, reliable handguns. The basic Glock mechanism was a major advance when it was introduced, but it hasn't been updated significantly in 20 years. The Springfield contains substantial engineering advances that are detailed on their website. It owes part of its heritage to the pioneering Glock (e.g., polymer frame, striker firing mechanism, etc.) but it is most definitely not a direct copy of the Glock. The videos there are helpful in understanding what goes into that gun. If you found the grip a bit short, it was either the compact or subcompact model that comes with two magazines - one that seats flush with the bottom of the grip, and a longer one that extends the grip to the same length as a full size pistol. The gun you fired had the short, flush magazine.

The failures you experienced could have been caused by limp wristing, but since you were aware of that, there's another real good possibility: the shop may have failed to replace the oft rented Glock's recoil spring at the recommended interval, and the weak spring (quite possibly aggravated by a failure to clean and lubricate the gun often enough) may well have been responsible for the failures. The sure way to find out would be to have an experienced shooter fire the same gun. If he gets the same results you did, it's the gun - not you. That, of course, isn't your responsibility. The range owners should follow this up. Failures like this are not typical of Glock performance in well maintained guns.

You noted the difference in your accuracy with the two guns. Remember that the Springfield is a true single action gun. This means all the work of cocking the striker is done by the slide when it is retracted either by hand or under recoil, and all you're doing with the trigger is moving an internal part to let the fully cocked striker fall. With the Glock, the slide only partially cocks the striker. When you pull the trigger, you are cocking the striker the remainder of the way against its spring pressure, as well as moving an internal part to let the striker fall. These differences cause the trigger pull on the Springfield to feel smoother and lighter than the Glock, and this makes it easier to activate the trigger without disturbing your sight picture. This results in better practical accuracy. I personally find the Springfield much easier to shoot accurately than the Glock, although I know many folks who have adapted quite well to the Glock configuration and are very fine shots with it as well.

Using a low recoiling gun to develop stance, grip, sight alignment and trigger control is definitely a good idea, and can save a lot of money. You can achieve this with a .22 pistol as suggested by several folks here. You can also address it with a good quality pellet pistol, or with a high quality Airsoft gun (not the ones you buy at WalMart - a good one costs around $150). I favor the Airsoft because many models are available that work exactly like the real guns they're copied from, so you can develop good habits that transfer directly to the gun you'll carry. Glock copies are readily available. A Springfield XD with an external manual safety lever may not be available at this time, but you can certainly find a model very close to it that will serve the purpose. Costs are even lower than with a .22, and you can safely fire it at home with no noise or penetration issues. All it takes to stop the little plastic pellets is a piece of cloth (e.g. a T-shirt or towel) on a wire hanger, and you can save yourself a lot of work chasing the little balls around the floor if you put a box with some crumpled up cloth in the bottom to catch the reusable pellets as they drop. You can even set up scenarios in an area like a garage that will require you to engage targets to either side and behind you as well as to the front, and practice shooting from inside and around a vehicle.

Safety mechanisms are not a "more is always better" subject. If you obey the four basic rules of firearms safety, you'd never have a negligent discharge even with a gun with no manual safeties at all (e.g., most revolvers). The passive safety mechanisms on both the Glock and the Springfield are more than adequate for safe operation. However, there is no reason not to buy a gun with an additional manually operated safety if you feel more comfortable with it and you're willing to put in the extra practice it requires to operate it correctly and consistently and automatically, even under the stress of a life threatening encounter.

I've carried a full size XD 45 for almost two years AIWB in formal, business casual, cowboy attire, shorts, etc. It works for me.

The XDm has a slightly slimmer profile and should be easier to carry than the XD.

My XD has fired thousands of rounds an I have had NO issues with it. My Glock 23 has had a F2F three times with about the same round count.

That's why I carry XD.

Once again thanks for taking the time and responding to my questions in a detailed manner - I know how it feels to be a veteran or more experienced board member and have to answer the same noob questions over and over again.

I frequent some motorcycle racing boards and can sometimes get frustrated with the noob questions.

I'm doing exactly what the majority of your recommend... which is try the guns before i buy them. Get a .22 (see my debate thread of which one to get) and also going with what I feel comfortable rather then what the sales persons are pushing for.

Thanks Guys...

We will answer newbie questions as long as there are new newbies to ask them. We will take newbies shooting in rain, snow, sleet, and dark of night if necessary.

To do otherwise will ultimately be the death of the shooting sports and the right to keep and bear arms.

Those who are tired of newbie questions should just pass on by and find something more worthy of their august attention.

- Jim