Advice for Face to Face purchases???

[Rockrz]

OK, so if a guy was going to purchase from a fellow Texas citizen in a face to face gun purchase....what advice you you guys give to safegard yourself from legal liability???

I've heard of people meeting to do the deal somewhere that has a copy machine so each party can make photcopies of their driver's license, l but what if the guy your buying from is using a fake license. You wouldn't really have any way of knowing.

I've also heard that it's a good idea to get a friend to go with you as a witness and leave them in the truck so they can at least write down the guy's plate number off of their vehicle. But, heck the car could be borrowed or stolen so that's potentially not very reliable.

So, what would be the best way to protect yourself legally and prove who this guy is that you're buying the gun from?

[AEA]

Best way is to buy from someone on this Board. We don't deal stolen guns!

A CHL holder will not knowingly sell you a stolen gun.

As far as legal liability goes, there is no requirement for you to fulfill when selling or buying a gun from an individual in Texas other than "Have a reasonable idea that the person you are dealing with is not a Felon or otherwise ineligible to own a gun".

Copies of DL's, CHL's, Birth Certificates, or Divorce Papers is your choice. But why?
If you were ever questioned by LE Agencies about your purchase or sale, all you have to do is tell them you transferred the gun (or received the gun) in a legal manner (no papers required) from an individual you did not know.

Same as if you were at a gun show and you see the AR of your dreams slung over some guy's shoulder (Non FFL) with a sign for sale. You give him the money, he gives you the gun.........done deal.

[Rockrz]

If you were ever questioned by LE Agencies about your purchase or sale, all you have to do is tell them you transferred the gun (or received the gun) in a legal manner (no papers required) from an individual you did not know.

I guess I should clarify what I mean by legal liability...

I'm talking about accidently buying a gun that was involved in a crime, and you get caught with it...and LE claims you did the crime since you have the gun!

Going to court and saying you bought it from some guy and have no witnesses or some way to prove that you actually did...could get you put in prison, potentially.

I'm guessing maybe having witnesses might be the best way to go.
Maybe if you have a friend that is a cop, that might work pretty good.

But, unfortunately I don't know anyone in LE

[anygunanywhere]

Don't buy from thugs in the hood.

I have never worried about firearms I purchased from those not on this forum. I have done so and it truly never bothered me. I don't worry about it.

Really, I would think that the odds are pretty remote that you would ever buy a stolen firearm.

YMMV

Anygunanywhere

[aardwolf]

I wouldn't let someone copy my license to buy or sell a gun. I'd tell them to buy from a dealer if they want a paper trail.

[Rockrz]

Don't buy from thugs in the hood.

That's the whole point...you never know if the "fine, upstanding, law abiding citizen" is selling you something that's not right

Heck, I'd rather get caught (not knowingly) with a gun that's been stolen than one that was used in a shooting.

I guess a fella just needs to go with his gut.
I wouldn't know what else to do....except maybe take a witness and have them get the guy's plate number of his truck, if it was even his vehicle.

[seamusTX]

Burglars and gangsters do not sell firearms through classified ads or on forums. I don't know where they make their transactions. Maybe where they trade kilos of coke and other contraband.

You can believe that if illegal transactions were carried out on forums, the forums would have been shut down by now.

You can ask to see a CHL if that makes you feel better, or buy only from FFLs.

I have bought a number of firearms on a handshake, and no one has kicked my door down. No one has searched me and run the serial numbers.

If we are to remain free, we must exercise our liberties.

- Jim

[Rockrz]

The whole purpose of asking for others input is because I'd rather buy FTF.
I'm no fan of any paper trails because of my Constitutional rights to firearms.

I simply don't believe it's any of the government's business if I have guns.

My only concern is being able to prove who I bought the gun from, and/or
being able to prove that I bought it from an individual and havew witnesses
to prove that I did, and when I did.

I wouldn't want to get caught with a gun that a ballistics tests shows
that it was used in a shooting that resulted in bodily injury to someone
or even murder.

You'd be hard pressed to convince a jury that you weren't the
one who shot the guy...after all, you have the gun that did the shooting!

This is the legal liability I'm thinking of...
(I know, next to impossible but it could happen)

[flb_78]

Buy the gun and install a new barrel.

[Rockrz]

Buy the gun and install a new barrel.

mmm...don't know if that is a good idea, or a bad
one should LE think one is trying to cover up a murder

[seamusTX]

You are asking for something that cannot exist. You cannot prove in court that you bought anything from anyone without affidavits sworn in the presence of a notary public, or a transaction carried out through an FFL. Photocopies have no legal weight.

I am still not a lawyer. You need to consult a real lawyer for opinions that you can take to court.

- Jim

[Rockrz]

Well, I was just trying to figure out a way to sort of cover myself
to prove that I did buy it from a private citizen and when it was
purchased.

I'm thinking a couple of witnesses may be the way to go.

I know...the only real way to ensure a gun hasn't been
used in a crime is to buy one bran new from a gun shop.

[onecoolpilot]

I recently sold a gun to member of the XDtalk.com forum. He was nice enough to sign a "bill of sale" that I stole from that forum.

Although I purchase the gun new, if anything were to ever come up, each one of us has some type of proof that the gun was transferred from myself to him. It kind of goes against your no paper trail rule, but at least I'm not the government, and your info is sitting safe in my safe.

[Mike1951]

I'm thinking a couple of witnesses may be the way to go.

Let me turn this around on you. If you were meeting someone and THEY insisted on bringing an extra 2-3 people, what would you think?

I've bought as many FTF as most and I don't have a hard rule. The last transaction we met in a restaurant parking midway. He brought two original copies of a bill of sale which we both signed. On my part, I provided a sheet with my DL and CHL scanned on it.

In this case, it was more a matter of reassuriing him, not me.

I've done deals with no paperwork at all, sometimes glancing at the CHL's.

Whatever it takes to make you comfortable, but you are worrying too much.

[stroo]

1. Only buy from CHLs. Ask to see their CHL, not to copy it.
2. Get a bill of sale. If you want, fill one in and have the seller sign. I have done that several times and never had anyone object.

Otherwise buy through FFLs.