monarch blue box ammo

[htxred]

well brass is softer then steel so steel on steel would cause more damage then brass on steel.

[Keith B]

well brass is softer then steel so steel on steel would cause more damage then brass on steel.

Without doing a hardness test on the steel vs. brass cases, we can only assume that the steel is harder. Some steel is very soft, and brass can be called brass, but have alloys that can make it harder. Case thickness will also play into the picture.

In this scenario, I would assume that the steel case alone would be harder than their brass cases. However, you have to factor in the layer of polymer coating. The coating may actually be softer than brass (I would assume it is), so these may not have as much of a wear component to them as a plain brass case.

[melkor41]

m9, my mini-14 ate up the blue box stuff just fine. I would assume your bushmaster will have no trouble with the green box

[DoubleActionCHL]

I've shot a lot of the Monarch green box with few problems, but lately I've been seeing many problems. My Berretta Px4s (both 9mm and .40 cal) will not shoot new Monarch rounds reliably; lots of fail-to-feed malfunctions. I noticed that the Monarch 9mms are about 1mm longer than the UMCs. Also, i've been seeing as many as 5 misfires (duds) per box during CHL testing. You're almost guaranteed to have at least one.

[TDDude]

All above good information, but my question remains unanswered: Does anyone KNOW if steel cased ammo really is tougher on guns or does it just seem like it makes sense to think so?

And a follow up: Is there such a thing as pistols designed with different internal metallurgy in order to withstand steel cased rounds or is this also conjecture?

Anyone here have a definitive answer or are we all in the dark on this?

Thanks

I shoot a Beretta cougar and I used to shoot wolf until my pistol got so hot one day the lacquer caused a case to stick in my barrel to where the extractor couldn't pull it out. The extractor simply slipped over the case lip and that CAN'T BE GOOD.

Also, the lacquer doesn't slip as well as brass so I was getting rounds stuck in the mags occasionally.

I don't know if any of this actually harms the pistol but I'd rather not fool with it.

[mr surveyor]

of all the different calibers/guages of Monarch ammunition I have wasted money on in the last 2-3 years, I can safely say it has to ba a very last resort. Not only is it dirty, it is very inconsistent. Sure, just consider it "range ammo", but then consider what you are shooting at the range - TARGETS! If you aren't consistently grouping those little holes in the paper as tight as the weapon is capable of, it must be the cheap commie ammo! Do NOT start tinkering with your iron sights or scopes if you are counting on Monarch (or Wolf, in my opinion) to be the benchmark for adjusting. Now, if you have no other purpose than spray and pray to throw some lead down range, it's fine....if you want to clean up the mess.

I have a good friend that had his Rem 700 in .223 shooting golf balls at 200 yards, using good clean American brass ammo. Last week, he started shooting Monarch (he's really a tightwad about some things), adjusted his scope - about a dozen times - then realized what he had done. He went from single shots fired hitting golf balls at 200 yards to shooting 4 inch groups at 100 yards. He gave away all the Monarch to a "spray and pray" AR shooter, and will now have to start over tweaking the scope.

[Bill]

I have shot the Green Box ammo for the last year, while I have a barrel conversion, 40-9 I can not say exactly what caused a number of FTF FTE issues. I did notice there was a a cakey hard built up on the feed ramp, that I have since starting cleaning more regular. This last session I shot 1000 rounds, and had on 1 FTF on the first 700 then started having some issues toward the end. I pulled the barrel and quickly cleaned it but still had some problems. Shooting .40 I have never had a FTF. The Monarch is dirty but workable for training, in fact a few FTF are good because most people do not practice clearing under stress. I shot the green box as well, and may have been the culprit in the last 300 or so.

[Keith B]

I shoot a Beretta cougar and I used to shoot wolf until my pistol got so hot one day the lacquer caused a case to stick in my barrel to where the extractor couldn't pull it out. The extractor simply slipped over the case lip and that CAN'T BE GOOD.

Also, the lacquer doesn't slip as well as brass so I was getting rounds stuck in the mags occasionally.

I don't know if any of this actually harms the pistol but I'd rather not fool with it.

Was it really lacquer (really polymer) build-up or possibly the issue listed in the Box-O-Truth test that the steel doesn't expand as well and blow-back around the case is fouling the chamber? I would suspicion the latter, but it is plausible that the polymer could melt off the case if hot enough.

[lagomorph]

Monarch green box is just rebranded Privi Partisan stuff. My XD and AR both love it. No, it's not the cleanest stuff out there, and it's definitely not match grade, but I can get 2 MOA out of it at 100 and 200 yards. Plenty good for just having fun.

[TDDude]

I shoot a Beretta cougar and I used to shoot wolf until my pistol got so hot one day the lacquer caused a case to stick in my barrel to where the extractor couldn't pull it out. The extractor simply slipped over the case lip and that CAN'T BE GOOD.

Also, the lacquer doesn't slip as well as brass so I was getting rounds stuck in the mags occasionally.

I don't know if any of this actually harms the pistol but I'd rather not fool with it.

Was it really lacquer (really polymer) build-up or possibly the issue listed in the Box-O-Truth test that the steel doesn't expand as well and blow-back around the case is fouling the chamber? I would suspicion the latter, but it is plausible that the polymer could melt off the case if hot enough.

You may be correct. I don't really know. I just know that I had to take a small section of cleaning rod and tap the case out with a hammer. I don't know at all why they would keep getting stuck in the mags. I occasionally get the cheaper range brass cased ammo stuck because the bullet is not seated properly (too long) but this was not the case with the "STEEL" ammo.

All I know is that I was pretty scairt that I had broke my extractor. Thankfully that good solid Italian Beretta steel held up and two years later I still have no problems.

As far as Monarch being cheap and inaccurate, it's certainly as accurate as I am with a 9mm pistol and I'm with others in saying that an occasional malfunction at the range is a good thing as it encourages practicing how to clear jams. I just recommend using the "good stuff" for defense carrying.

[Mike1951]

When Wolf began offering polymer coated ammo in some calibers instead of the lacquer, it was my understanding that the polymer would not gum up an action.

[kauboy]

The explanation about the carbon build up, as opposed to the "laquering", is reassuring.
I had always heard from the gun counter commandos that Wolf is just bad stuff all around because of the "film" the put on the rounds.
Thanks for the explanation, and the link to the Box-o-Truth article. It was a big help in separating fact from fiction.
Wolf or the Monarch blue box just might be my new range ammo.
Of course, the Gold Dot will still be my carry (after a really good chamber cleaning, I might add )

[waynev]

I had a problem with the Monarch green box in my 45 last weekend. A friend gave me half a box he had left over and I decided to get rid of it. Free is good, right? Imagine my surprise when there was no shot, just a pop and small flash. And then my pistol was jammed. I managed to get the action apart to find the case stuck in the chamber. After gently prying the case enough to get the extractor out, the case came out. A reloading friend pulled the bullet for me and found that the primer was set into the case, but there was never a hole punched for the primer to ignite the powder and fire the round. I don't think it screwed up my gun, but I'll find out tomorrow when I get back to the range. You can shoot Monarch if you like, but I think I'll avoid it like the plague. Yeah, I know, any manufacturer could have the same problem. But the worst problem I've heard about with WWB is that the weights are all very inconsistent.

[TDDude]

When Wolf began offering polymer coated ammo in some calibers instead of the lacquer, it was my understanding that the polymer would not gum up an action.

I never realized that the coating had been changed to a Polymer. It might be worth trying a couple boxes.

The main thing I've heard on other forums bout the Steel cased ammo is that it is hard on some firearms.

Brass is a much softer metal than the Steel that is used in ammo. I've mainly heard from various forum members about broken extractors and the like from using the Steel ammo.

I was shooting with a friend once who had a 1911 style and he was shooting Wolf. We both saw an occasional spark such as one sees when dragging a chain on pavement and it was coming from the receiver and not the muzzle so that was enough for him to stay away.

Steel cased ammo works best on eastern block weapons such as AK's and the like because they are designed to use it.

I'll try the new polymer stuff but I have too much invested in my firearms to run something that may cause damage.

[phil evans]

after cleaning my hart .308 barrel, i use three monarchs blue box
as fouling shots
before shooting for group size.
its cheaper than shooting a reloaded --
43 grains of varget, 150 grain sierra match king, federal match primer.