CHL and unarmed attacker

[TEA]

I would never tell you what to do but, I would have drawn. Out numbered three to one I would have feared for my life. I'm a true believer with it comes to disparity of force. Google the term and you'll find plenty of articles on the subject. Massad Ayoob covers this and has testified in court concerning the subject.

Situational awareness should always be the first line of defense. Especially given the presence of a young child, after the initial exchange I would have stayed in the store for several minutes to see if the car left. If it didn't, I would call the police and let them deal with the situation. As CHL holders we must be smarter than the criminals. Avoiding a second encounter and not needing to draw your firearm is a much cheaper and safer option.

Very good advice. However, what about his 4 year old son? The OP does not explicitly state where his son is during all of this, but it sounds like he was left in the car.

Just to spit ball an idea here: how about going back into the store to tell the clerk about your concerns, dial 911 and while on the phone with the operator, activate the speaker phone function and your cell phone camera's video recorder (assuming you have a cell phone camera)? If they get out of their car and start heading towards your car, then return to your vehicle to secure your son and tell them that you are on the phone with 911 and that you are recording them. Would this approach be more likely to deescalate or aggravate the situation? It seems that with all this new communication technology around us that we should be able to use it to our advantage in a situation like this.

[karder]

In your case you had 3 guys bearing down on you. You were certainly threatened and robbed but given you circumstances, I think you did the right thing. Your son is more important than the money or the pride.
As far as the question about letting them get a couple of licks in before drawing your weapon, that is very dangerous. It only takes one good hit to take you out of the fight and I don't think those guys wanted to buy you a coke and apologize.

[Vol Texan]

There have been a few good responses on here about how your particular situation may or may not have played out. I'll avoid rehashing those, and try to address your subject line in general.

I'm not in my 20s anymore, nor am I in the physical shape to sustain any protracted physical altercation with an unknown, (possibly) unarmed attacker. I've had spinal surgery in my neck, so one good hit has the potential to put me down for the (eternally) long count.

I have no desire to get into a fight, and I'll do anything I can to avoid one. I'll use any number of tools at my disposal to avoid the fight, including (but not limited to): rapid egress from the area, retreat to a safer location, non-violent conflict resolution, etc. But make no mistake...I do consider drawing my SigSauer as the penultimate tool at my disposal to avoid that fight. The ultimate, of course, involves squeezing the trigger a couple of times.

I don't care if they appeared to be armed or not. Because of my spinal injury, any physical altercation has the potential to be deadly. If I can't 'nice guy' my way out of the fight (and I'll try hard to do that), then I'll do whatever 'not nice' thing I need to do to avoid it.

I pray that it'll never come to that, but if it does, will I win in court? I'm not sure if I would or not, but my medical records jacket supports my use of terms like "imminent", "reasonably believe", and "immediately necessary", and I can only hope that would play well to the jury.

[maximus2161]

Make sure you have your phone with you at all times. It would have been real simple while you were safely inside to call 911 or even just have the clerk call in you specific case. I realize you may have gone back out since your son was there but even so it's something to show your desire to avoid trouble if you do have to use your chl. Also just saying "I've already called the cops" can also cause people to rethink actions. I think people are to worried about looking bad by calling the cops when suspicious. Not only could it help you, but also let the cops know what is going on and better able to watch for problems.

Once the other guys came out of the car I would have retreated to the store and called 911, especially if I didn't have a couple bucks in my pocket.

As I was reading your story this is what I would have done. Just glad you and son didnt get hurt

[CHLLady]

I would never have left my child in the car unattended. If I go in, they go in with me. Period. I've read too many stories about car jackings and seen too many videos of cars hitting the gas pumps and catching on fire.

I understand why you walked back, I'm relieved it worked out the way it did. Please, just take your child with you, always. He's most precious.

[jmra]

I would never have left my child in the car unattended. If I go in, they go in with me. Period. I've read too many stories about car jackings and seen too many videos of cars hitting the gas pumps and catching on fire.

I understand why you walked back, I'm relieved it worked out the way it did. Please, just take your child with you, always. He's most precious.

The suggestion that he left a 4 yo in the car never occurred to me as a possibility because it is not something I would have done. Of course I don't go into gas stations either. I pay at the pump and I have no reason to go in for any other purpose as I don't pay the ridiculous prices that gas stations want for anything else they sell.

[Javier730]

I would never have left my child in the car unattended. If I go in, they go in with me. Period. I've read too many stories about car jackings and seen too many videos of cars hitting the gas pumps and catching on fire.

I understand why you walked back, I'm relieved it worked out the way it did. Please, just take your child with you, always. He's most precious.

My son was NOT left in vehicle. He was at my side the whole time.

[jmra]

I would never have left my child in the car unattended. If I go in, they go in with me. Period. I've read too many stories about car jackings and seen too many videos of cars hitting the gas pumps and catching on fire.

I understand why you walked back, I'm relieved it worked out the way it did. Please, just take your child with you, always. He's most precious.

My son was NOT left in vehicle. He was at my side the whole time.

Glad to hear it. Someone else assumed that you had - we all know what happens when someone assumes...

Edited for sp.

[asbandr]

I've been doing a lot of "what would I do" scenarios in my head as I await the arrival of my chl. A lot of my scenarios center around having the kids present with me. I agree that the best method of securing yourself and your child would have been to stay I the store, watch for the car to leave (robbery had not occurred at this point right? So there wasn't much reason to call 911 unless they didn't leave or were especially forceful in the first encounter.) if they didn't leave I'd call 911 especial since I'm a woman with 2 small children likely with me. If it were just me on my own and I chose to go on out to the car, and they got out, if try to go back into the store and call 911. If that weren't an option and it's obvious they are a threat, I'd probably draw on them. If they continued to come at me, even with my gun drawn, they clearly mean to hurt me so I'd likely then be forced to pull the trigger. That's just my opinion. I don't know how I'll handle a situation exactly until it's presented. I just pray that if that time ever comes I'll have a clear head to make quick, wise decisions.

[EEllis]

Would this approach be more likely to deescalate or aggravate the situation? It seems that with all this new communication technology around us that we should be able to use it to our advantage in a situation like this.

I think it would most likely help but everything is a crap shoot. What will send one guy running may set another off and there may be no way to know which ahead of time

[TBJK]

You can't ever be sure that they are unarmed. I guess I'm somewhat lucky in this area. I'm that guy that others usually tend to avoid or that you wouldn't want to come across in a dark alley. Not my words, my friends tell me this, that if they didn't know me they would not want to come across me in a dark alley. Funny thing is a few years ago when I grew my beard for the first time, my aunt told me " you look homeless, Do your little old lady customers get afraid when they see you?" My response was " no, I do not have any little old lady customers". I do heavy commercial HVAC so women customers are few & far between. Anyway, I do generally avoid confrontation, stay very aware of my surrounding at all times. Given if I were in your situation I probably would had advised them to keep there distance & drew my weapon if they had continued. He did after all threaten you & when your out numbered you have to have a equalizing force. Especially since you had you son with you, it's your right to protect yourself & family.