Red Light Camera

[K.Mooneyham]

I've read this entire thread, and still don't understand why that thing ticketed me for a right-hand turn when I wasn't speeding and it turned yellow on me just before I entered the turn, if the thing was set up as it has been described. If I had been mashing the pedal and blazed straight through an intersection and ran a red light, that would have been my fault (and I assure you I would have paid if that were the case). But it simply wasn't the case. I'm still irritated, and I'm also irritated by the "customer service" that I encountered.

[Oldgringo]

We took a wrong turn in Denver last week and went down an unmanned toll road. Realizing our error we turned around at the first opportunity/exit and went back the way we came. IIRC, there was a camera there and a sign that indicated that short section was $1.05 BUT there was no one to pay???? It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. It may be Molon Labe time.

[MechAg94]

I've read this entire thread, and still don't understand why that thing ticketed me for a right-hand turn when I wasn't speeding and it turned yellow on me just before I entered the turn, if the thing was set up as it has been described. If I had been mashing the pedal and blazed straight through an intersection and ran a red light, that would have been my fault (and I assure you I would have paid if that were the case). But it simply wasn't the case. I'm still irritated, and I'm also irritated by the "customer service" that I encountered.

Maybe because it doesn't work as advertised?

My problem with all the claims of the good the cameras do is that all those things can be fixed with better light timing among other things. However, that stuff cost money to do. Red light cameras are supposed to generate money.

[Jasonbtx]

Hell just send them a picture of the mOney!! :-)

[TexasVet]

I believe the red light infraction happens when you ENTER the intersection and it is red. If you are past the intersection white stop line so that you are partially or fully in the intersection before the light turns red, then you lawfully exit and clear the intersection.

That is how I learned it from a motorcycle cop who was better versed on the traffic codes than I was. His boiling down to it's essentials was " You cannot Exit an intersection illegally, if you Entered it legally"

[Chris]

I've read this entire thread, and still don't understand why that thing ticketed me for a right-hand turn when I wasn't speeding and it turned yellow on me just before I entered the turn, if the thing was set up as it has been described. If I had been mashing the pedal and blazed straight through an intersection and ran a red light, that would have been my fault (and I assure you I would have paid if that were the case). But it simply wasn't the case. I'm still irritated, and I'm also irritated by the "customer service" that I encountered.

Maybe because it doesn't work as advertised?

My problem with all the claims of the good the cameras do is that all those things can be fixed with better light timing among other things. However, that stuff cost money to do. Red light cameras are supposed to generate money.

Yellow light timing has very little to do with someone's decision to run a red light. You can roughly figure a second for every 10 miles per hour. I had an intersection with a four and a half second yellow and people ran the ever loving crap out of it. Our engineers would extend the timing before a light was even considered. It was a huge ordeal to get a camera setup. I could do it, it just took a lot of effort. The engineering problem is when you go through many towns and hit all green lights on the main thoroughfares, it's because of some highly complicated signal timing. You add a half a second of yellow, you've got to steal it from somewhere.

I can tell you with certainty though, that adding yellow time does virtually nothing to stop red light running. I've done the real live actual studies on intersections doing just that.

Having said that, I can't say it's not about money. For people like me and the engineers who are tasked with traffic, they don't want fatalities or serious accidents on roads they control. For city managers and directors I wish I could say the same.

[K.Mooneyham]

I've read this entire thread, and still don't understand why that thing ticketed me for a right-hand turn when I wasn't speeding and it turned yellow on me just before I entered the turn, if the thing was set up as it has been described. If I had been mashing the pedal and blazed straight through an intersection and ran a red light, that would have been my fault (and I assure you I would have paid if that were the case). But it simply wasn't the case. I'm still irritated, and I'm also irritated by the "customer service" that I encountered.

Maybe because it doesn't work as advertised?

My problem with all the claims of the good the cameras do is that all those things can be fixed with better light timing among other things. However, that stuff cost money to do. Red light cameras are supposed to generate money.

Yellow light timing has very little to do with someone's decision to run a red light. You can roughly figure a second for every 10 miles per hour. I had an intersection with a four and a half second yellow and people ran the ever loving crap out of it. Our engineers would extend the timing before a light was even considered. It was a huge ordeal to get a camera setup. I could do it, it just took a lot of effort. The engineering problem is when you go through many towns and hit all green lights on the main thoroughfares, it's because of some highly complicated signal timing. You add a half a second of yellow, you've got to steal it from somewhere.

I can tell you with certainty though, that adding yellow time does virtually nothing to stop red light running. I've done the real live actual studies on intersections doing just that.

Having said that, I can't say it's not about money. For people like me and the engineers who are tasked with traffic, they don't want fatalities or serious accidents on roads they control. For city managers and directors I wish I could say the same.

With the highlighted text in mind, and IIRC that stretch of street was 35 MPH, it should have been about a 3.5 second yellow. I highly doubt it took me 3.5 seconds to make that turn. Not saying I disagree with your info, I'm sure you are correct..and that is what bugs me most about it.

[gringo pistolero]

I can tell you with certainty though, that adding yellow time does virtually nothing to stop red light running. I've done the real live actual studies on intersections doing just that.

If you're saying there's no significant difference between a 4 second yellow and a 6 second yellow on a city street, I can believe that. At some point you hit diminishing returns. On the other hand, the limit of human reaction time and the laws of physics make it hard to believe there's no difference in red light running between a 4 second and a 2 second yellow light.

[Chris]

I can tell you with certainty though, that adding yellow time does virtually nothing to stop red light running. I've done the real live actual studies on intersections doing just that.

If you're saying there's no significant difference between a 4 second yellow and a 6 second yellow on a city street, I can believe that. At some point you hit diminishing returns. On the other hand, the limit of human reaction time and the laws of physics make it hard to believe there's no difference in red light running between a 4 second and a 2 second yellow light.

They all use the MUTCD and some other manual, but I don't remember what it's called... I'm no engineer. It takes into account a variety of factors. Say you have an Audi with a fresh brake job, then a worn out garbage truck. They have to set the timing to account for a whole host of vehicles and vehicle conditions. I was an accident investigator, and when you do speed calculations, most people can stop faster than they think. The problem is people spend a second or two debating whether they can make the light or not.

If there is ever a timing issue, regardless of whether or not a camera is present, you can always call and have the city or state responsible for it check it out. One city installed cameras and used an outsourced engineering company to set the timing. They screwed up and, I forget the specifics now, but the light timing went into default mode, which was maybe a half to a second quicker than it should have been. It was made into a big deal because a camera was on it. It was a mistake that shouldn't have happened, but it looked bad.

You can always appeal those red light tickets. I know some of the hearing officers, and most of then are very fair. I saw the hearing officer I had dismiss a lot of violations that the officers issued, because he thought it was a little cheesy. I dismissed a few myself because I guess the officers made a mistake and let one through that shouldn't have. It's all about integrity, but I saw politics get in the way quite a bit.

[OrangeAnimal]

I think the camera operated speed traps are the worst. They have them here in New Orleans and boy they are smart where they set them up. Here in Gretna LA they have a Ford Escape loaded with all the equipment. They parked it at the foot of an on ramp! You have to be accelerating to get up the ramp it's steep as the expressway (as they call it here) is elevated. The ramp is short (maybe 300ft and the elevation change is roughly 25ft) the speed on the frontage is 35mph the limit on the expressway and to safely enter without getting stuck in that lane that almost immediately turns into the offramp on the other side of the intersection below you really need to be doing atleast 50mph. In my Van I really have to kick it in the pants if I wait till the last minute to accelerate. Now my wife was driving our other car and got a ticket in that same spot for going 40 it was plain as day she was going to enter the expressway and I really thought it was a joke but when our day came to go in she put on her uniform and we went in to take care of the ticket she was driving and I am the legal owner of the car. Another interesting tid bit is in LA you do not get front license plates since our car is still registered in TX they were able to actually get a pic of the plate they had no pics of the rear of our vehicle so that means if I would not have had the front plate I wouldn't be going through this to start with made me a little irritated. Oh well we get there it's literally a one man show. We tell him we got this ticket he thumbs thru and pulls out his copy and tosses it in the trash. I am not joking. He says don't worry about it. Then tells my wife some lame old Navy joke which she has heard many times before we say thanks and were on our way. Maybe it was because my Wife is a senior officer maybe not I don't think they take all of them that seriously.

My advice to anyone who gets a red light ticket or camera ticket is to take your day in court. Most folks are reasonable. Just be civil and polite it goes a long way. Also be completely honest with yourself and others.

[dfw123]

Got a ticket right turn 2am 15miles ,no one was around anywhere ,new to TX ,
Do they report to credit report agency for unpaid in Texas

found below got red light camera ticket dismissed with letter ?

http://www.copblock.org/33390/how-to-be ... ght-ticket" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


To Whom it May Concern,

I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in
the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am
writing to plead 'not guilty' to this charge. Although this option is said
to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the
charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax
payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such
proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged
'crime', as well as the fact that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to
face my 'accuser' (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me
to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government's
responsibility to prove a person's guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right
to remain silent on the matter.

If it is the government's decision to move forward in this matter, I would
request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in
the "offense"; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s)
involved.

Sincerely,

Nathan Cox
United States Army Veteran

[ShootDontTalk]

I find it fascinating that some here advocate just glibly complying with what is clearly an unconstitutional act (violating the 5th and 6th Amendments) by complying with a demand to pay a fine from a red light camera.

I wonder what the outcome will be if a municipality decides to impose a fine by installing a neighborhood camera to catch gun owners moving a weapon to their car for a day at the range thereby violating the same Constitution, but reasonably adding to the public safety by keeping guns off the streets. Would the imposition of, well let's think liberal for the sake of argument, a $100 fine per violation be something we would just advise to pay up? Would we advocate paying the one and not paying the other?

Can anyone successfully argue that cities that do not believe the Constitution applies to residents will not decide the 2nd Amendment is as easily violated as the 5th and 6th? All by the automated imposition of fines. Do red light cameras work? I would respond that isn't the real question. In my view the question is do they violate the Constitution? And what violations are we willing to tolerate, and indeed promote? I'm not sure I'm interested in a government which can so easily violate the Constitution with impunity granting me a CHL - a government license to exercise my Constitutional right. My opinions in any event. Fire away.

[tbrown]

So did you refuse to pay $140 to Texas DPS for a RKBA license?

[Oldgringo]

I got one in Lufkin a couple, three years ago.

The ticket directed me to a website which showed Mrs. Oldgingo's Expedition moving under a red light. I don't have a lot to do but I have more to do than make a 100 mile round trip and debate the inanimate camera's accusation. I mailed in the $75 fee grabber fee and made a note to self, "PAY ATTENTION, Dagnabit!"....and don't shop in Lufkin, no more.

[ShootDontTalk]

So did you refuse to pay $140 to Texas DPS for a RKBA license?

Guess I didn't word it right. I didn't imply that license was tantamount to a fine. I did imply that our government cannot violate our rights that are granted by a higher authority with impunity - even in imposing civil fines. Not any of our rights. The Constitution is there for a reason. In my opinion at least.