and a .22 rifle now.carlson1 wrote:
Update: FOX new reports that ATF recovered 2 9mm handguns.
Shooting at Virginia Tech
Moderator: carlson1
-
TheRising
This really hits me hard, for multiple reasons.
I just graduated from Penn State in December. I first got my CHL in Pittsburgh the summer before that last semester. I contacted the Chief of Police at PSU and met with him on the issue of Concealed Handguns on campus. He flatly refused it and he had the law to back him up. He had lied to my face when I confronted him with the fact that Penn State was a public campus. He told me it was not and that it was in fact subject to free speech zones too (which was a complete lie, over the summer, legislation had shot that down). I was furious, not only was I not allowed to carry on campus, this guy was lying to me about the laws he was in charge of upholding. I called my father, as he is able to usually calm me down, and he did.
During that conversation, and in subsequent ones, I distinctly remember telling my father that I could not believe how easy it would be for someone to take out as many people as they had bullets on PSUs campus. I would walk around campus to my classes for days on end without seeing as much as a security guard.
There is a false sense of security being levied on our students today in college campuses across the nation. We have students who are trying to get an education on completely open campuses with minimal amounts of security. Metal detectors won't work because of the sheer volume of kids. Imagine trying to funnel 50,000 kids worth of traffic a day through metal detectors and such when kids carry their lives in their backpacks. NO WAY would it work.
We live in a society where things like this happen. That is something that we need to deal with in the proper manner. However, the people who are supposed to represent us in this great "Republic" fail consistently at doing so. This incident could have been stopped in its tracks had the students of VA Tech been allowed to carry concealed, through the proper channels (i.e. CHLs), and defend themselves from such a tragedy. It is in the hands of the people we trust in government that something like this could have been stopped or lessened. And what makes me even angrier is that not a soul on this earth can claim that hindsight is 20/20 because we have been arguing this issue for years.
The blood of the victims is on the hands of the legislators that have effectively disarmed the aspiring youth of our college campuses. There is no greater tragedy than to lose a young mind in a needless manner and such a tragedy has occured today and could have possibly been averted. That is the tragedy and we should not stand in silence any more.
I can only pray to God that the people who are directly affected by this are able to cope with their grief and that the spineless legislators will finally remove the money of lobbyist groups from their back pockets and step up to the plate to address this problem.
May God help us all.
Jon Yimin
I just graduated from Penn State in December. I first got my CHL in Pittsburgh the summer before that last semester. I contacted the Chief of Police at PSU and met with him on the issue of Concealed Handguns on campus. He flatly refused it and he had the law to back him up. He had lied to my face when I confronted him with the fact that Penn State was a public campus. He told me it was not and that it was in fact subject to free speech zones too (which was a complete lie, over the summer, legislation had shot that down). I was furious, not only was I not allowed to carry on campus, this guy was lying to me about the laws he was in charge of upholding. I called my father, as he is able to usually calm me down, and he did.
During that conversation, and in subsequent ones, I distinctly remember telling my father that I could not believe how easy it would be for someone to take out as many people as they had bullets on PSUs campus. I would walk around campus to my classes for days on end without seeing as much as a security guard.
There is a false sense of security being levied on our students today in college campuses across the nation. We have students who are trying to get an education on completely open campuses with minimal amounts of security. Metal detectors won't work because of the sheer volume of kids. Imagine trying to funnel 50,000 kids worth of traffic a day through metal detectors and such when kids carry their lives in their backpacks. NO WAY would it work.
We live in a society where things like this happen. That is something that we need to deal with in the proper manner. However, the people who are supposed to represent us in this great "Republic" fail consistently at doing so. This incident could have been stopped in its tracks had the students of VA Tech been allowed to carry concealed, through the proper channels (i.e. CHLs), and defend themselves from such a tragedy. It is in the hands of the people we trust in government that something like this could have been stopped or lessened. And what makes me even angrier is that not a soul on this earth can claim that hindsight is 20/20 because we have been arguing this issue for years.
The blood of the victims is on the hands of the legislators that have effectively disarmed the aspiring youth of our college campuses. There is no greater tragedy than to lose a young mind in a needless manner and such a tragedy has occured today and could have possibly been averted. That is the tragedy and we should not stand in silence any more.
I can only pray to God that the people who are directly affected by this are able to cope with their grief and that the spineless legislators will finally remove the money of lobbyist groups from their back pockets and step up to the plate to address this problem.
May God help us all.
Jon Yimin
-
sparx
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: North Richland Hills, TX
- Contact:
I just hope that doesn't turn into a .223 rifle, then morph into an "automatic assault rifle"... already heard on the AP news video reporters describing "one of those automatic assault rifles" a policeman exited his car with.Will wrote:and a .22 rifle now.
This whole tragedy is horrendous and sad, and our prayers are definately needed, but not only for the victims and those affected. My hopes is that one or more of those affected souls will stand up and fight for the right to carry on campus just as Suzzana Hupp did for our rights to carry here in Texas, and more importantly they be listened to and have their say be effective in making a change for the better.
NRA, TSRA, TXGR, SAF, GOA & FPC
"I'm not terrified of guns, I'm terrified of gun-free zones!"
"I'm not terrified of guns, I'm terrified of gun-free zones!"
Having been a student at the U. of Texas in the summer of 1966, I had the misfortune of witnessing most of Charles Whitman's shooting rampage from the top of the UT Tower. I can certainly emphasize with the terror the VT kids felt, but at least I and my roommate could crouch behind a car to watch for over almost an hour.
Whitman killed 12 & wounded 29 in that time, but was prevented from running the numbers higher because students who kept hunting rifles in their dorm rooms & apartments fired back at him, thereby forcing him to take cover. Before that return fire started up, we could clearly see him leaning over the parapet shooting with his Remington bolt action. Then he was forced to shoot through the drain holes, which greatly reduced his field of fire. Of the three men who confronted Whitman on the Tower's observation deck, two were uniformed policemen, and the third was a civilian bookstore manager who had his own handgun with him.
In all the time afterward, I never felt the need for gun bans of any kind.
Whitman killed 12 & wounded 29 in that time, but was prevented from running the numbers higher because students who kept hunting rifles in their dorm rooms & apartments fired back at him, thereby forcing him to take cover. Before that return fire started up, we could clearly see him leaning over the parapet shooting with his Remington bolt action. Then he was forced to shoot through the drain holes, which greatly reduced his field of fire. Of the three men who confronted Whitman on the Tower's observation deck, two were uniformed policemen, and the third was a civilian bookstore manager who had his own handgun with him.
In all the time afterward, I never felt the need for gun bans of any kind.
-
pbandjelly
just a side note, you have a population of people that are not old enough to buy a handgun.
kind of eliminates the freshman/sophmore dorms.
folks old enough to pack, don't typically live on campus.
but being able to carry to/from class (granted, we're talking about grad students, here) would be nice.
kind of eliminates the freshman/sophmore dorms.
folks old enough to pack, don't typically live on campus.
but being able to carry to/from class (granted, we're talking about grad students, here) would be nice.
-
sparx
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: North Richland Hills, TX
- Contact:
TheRising wrote:The blood of the victims is on the hands of the legislators that have effectively disarmed the aspiring youth of our college campuses. There is no greater tragedy than to lose a young mind in a needless manner and such a tragedy has occured today and could have possibly been averted. That is the tragedy and we should not stand in silence any more.
I can only pray to God that the people who are directly affected by this are able to cope with their grief and that the spineless legislators will finally remove the money of lobbyist groups from their back pockets and step up to the plate to address this problem.
May God help us all.
Jon Yimin
Well you beat me to it Rising... I didn't see your reply until after mine was posted, but I agree 100%... it's sad, it's sick, and as nation that has let this happen it's nobody's fault but our own.NRA, TSRA, TXGR, SAF, GOA & FPC
"I'm not terrified of guns, I'm terrified of gun-free zones!"
"I'm not terrified of guns, I'm terrified of gun-free zones!"
-
propellerhead
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 9:12 am
- Location: The part of Texas that isn't like Texas
Thank you.Armybrat wrote:Having been a student at the U. of Texas in the summer of 1966, I had the misfortune of witnessing most of Charles Whitman's shooting rampage from the top of the UT Tower. I can certainly emphasize with the terror the VT kids felt, but at least I and my roommate could crouch behind a car to watch for over almost an hour.
Whitman killed 12 & wounded 29 in that time, but was prevented from running the numbers higher because students who kept hunting rifles in their dorm rooms & apartments fired back at him, thereby forcing him to take cover. Before that return fire started up, we could clearly see him leaning over the parapet shooting with his Remington bolt action. Then he was forced to shoot through the drain holes, which greatly reduced his field of fire. Of the three men who confronted Whitman on the Tower's observation deck, two were uniformed policemen, and the third was a civilian bookstore manager who had his own handgun with him.
In all the time afterward, I never felt the need for gun bans of any kind.
-
TheRising
pbandjelly wrote:just a side note, you have a population of people that are not old enough to buy a handgun.
kind of eliminates the freshman/sophmore dorms.
folks old enough to pack, don't typically live on campus.
but being able to carry to/from class (granted, we're talking about grad students, here) would be nice.
To say that you have a population of people that are not old enough to buy a handgun is just false. Just because the older students don't live on campus doesn't mean they don't spend HOURS AND HOURS on campus studying and going to classes. Your hardest work is done in your Junior and Senior years. I spent more time on campus in those 4 semesters than I ever did as a freshman or sophmore. Juniors and Seniors are NOT grad students either, sir.
EDIT for INFO:
An example of Portlan State University's enrolement by age (only quick one I could find):
13,937 students 21 and over
3245 students under 21
That's 81% of students over the age of 21......
Last edited by TheRising on Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
pbandjelly
WHOA! easy there, fella.TheRising wrote: I see now how being far removed from a situation distorts logic.
I was just saying that MOST folks that live on campus can't buy a handgun, anyway. Not every single person that ever steps on to a collegiate campus.
I believe I read somewhere that the shooter did a lil' shootin' in the Dorms, as well.
you know, believe it or not (and I can understand no one believing this), but I actually went to college, AND GRADUATED....
I was trying to add some addendum info.
what do they call the guy that was last in his class in Med School?
Doctor.
-
TheRising
-
stevie_d_64
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 6
- Posts: 7590
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:17 pm
- Location: 77504
Its already started:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/usa_crime_sh ... xpbwdH2ocA
Thanks Reuters!!!
-snip-
GUN CONTROL?
Advocates of wider gun controls said the availability of guns in the United States had made it easier for people to commit murder everywhere, including in schools and colleges.
"What have we done as a nation in the 8 years since Columbine about this problem? We compound the trade of the day by our failure to deal with the proliferation of guns in our country," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
Helmke said that since Columbine, which happened eight years ago this week, there had been no new legislation on control of guns and he said a ban on assault weapons was allowed to expire in September 2004.
Advocates of gun freedom such as the National Rifle Association argue that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the U.S. constitution and dispute efforts to link the incidence of gun crime with access to firearms.
Many recent studies have looked at student-on-student violence and its causes and after Columbine intense scrutiny focused on the lives and backgrounds of the two gunmen, who committed suicide.
It also focused on school bullying, social cliques and the potential effects of the music they listened to and the video games they played. Experts also looked for ways to spot warning signs of violence.
Kaslow said that violence in U.S. schools was a bigger problem than was reported because of the high incidence of bullying, hitting and sexual offenses. Shootings were just an extreme form of that violence, she said.
"We are bombarded with violent images in our culture. We have a culture of violence here (in the United States). Kids will go home and watch this on TV," she said.
-end snip-
Nearly half the article...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/usa_crime_sh ... xpbwdH2ocA
Thanks Reuters!!!
-snip-
GUN CONTROL?
Advocates of wider gun controls said the availability of guns in the United States had made it easier for people to commit murder everywhere, including in schools and colleges.
"What have we done as a nation in the 8 years since Columbine about this problem? We compound the trade of the day by our failure to deal with the proliferation of guns in our country," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
Helmke said that since Columbine, which happened eight years ago this week, there had been no new legislation on control of guns and he said a ban on assault weapons was allowed to expire in September 2004.
Advocates of gun freedom such as the National Rifle Association argue that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the U.S. constitution and dispute efforts to link the incidence of gun crime with access to firearms.
Many recent studies have looked at student-on-student violence and its causes and after Columbine intense scrutiny focused on the lives and backgrounds of the two gunmen, who committed suicide.
It also focused on school bullying, social cliques and the potential effects of the music they listened to and the video games they played. Experts also looked for ways to spot warning signs of violence.
Kaslow said that violence in U.S. schools was a bigger problem than was reported because of the high incidence of bullying, hitting and sexual offenses. Shootings were just an extreme form of that violence, she said.
"We are bombarded with violent images in our culture. We have a culture of violence here (in the United States). Kids will go home and watch this on TV," she said.
-end snip-
Nearly half the article...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
-
pbandjelly
-
piro
- Member
- Posts in topic: 4
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:35 am
- Location: Austin/The Woodlands
The living on campus <21 thing sort of carries some weight in the sense that had this guy done this 8 hours earlier, the chances of anyone having a handgun on campus would have been a lot smaller then someone being able to have one at 7:15 on campus. Mostly for the reasons stated people coming to class for the day.
I go to UT @ Austin and I just got home and heard about this. Anyone whose familiar with the area knows that during passing period it can be one heck of a time trying to get a car through inner campus. For those that don't imagine streams of people crossing every intersection in every which way blocking traffic completely. Take that situation and add one person in the mix with thousands of people going thousands of different vectors you led yourself into a situation where if something were to go down the students seeking cover wouldn't know which direction was deemed to be safe. I don't know how many people went to UT back in the Whitman shootings but I imagine that number has skyrocketed and having metal detectors ONLY in on the way up to the observatory in the tower leaves me with the desire to be able to carry into any UT building.
My thoughts are with all the families of those that died who had the unfortunate fortune of being able to go to class today to better their future.
And I hope that there won't be a copy cat incident with this =|
I go to UT @ Austin and I just got home and heard about this. Anyone whose familiar with the area knows that during passing period it can be one heck of a time trying to get a car through inner campus. For those that don't imagine streams of people crossing every intersection in every which way blocking traffic completely. Take that situation and add one person in the mix with thousands of people going thousands of different vectors you led yourself into a situation where if something were to go down the students seeking cover wouldn't know which direction was deemed to be safe. I don't know how many people went to UT back in the Whitman shootings but I imagine that number has skyrocketed and having metal detectors ONLY in on the way up to the observatory in the tower leaves me with the desire to be able to carry into any UT building.
My thoughts are with all the families of those that died who had the unfortunate fortune of being able to go to class today to better their future.
And I hope that there won't be a copy cat incident with this =|
It is amazing that these people are blaming everything they can but the source of the problem. People who did not provide proper parenting. I hope these people do realize that you can use almost any object as a deadly weapon. You can stab someone with a screw driver and kill someone with it.stevie_d_64 wrote:Its already started:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/usa_crime_sh ... xpbwdH2ocA
It also focused on school bullying, social cliques and the potential effects of the music they listened to and the video games they played. Experts also looked for ways to spot warning signs of violence.
Kaslow said that violence in U.S. schools was a bigger problem than was reported because of the high incidence of bullying, hitting and sexual offenses. Shootings were just an extreme form of that violence, she said.
"We are bombarded with violent images in our culture. We have a culture of violence here (in the United States). Kids will go home and watch this on TV," she said.
I don't know what's more sad. The trajedy that happened at Virginia Tech or a lot of the parents today.
It is a sad day indeed for the folks a Virginia Tech. It is also very sad that almost none of the school officials will ever learn from this and it is guaranteed that it will happen again somewhere else.
-
Will
- Junior Member
- Posts in topic: 3
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:47 am
- Location: Texarkana/Atlanta/QC
now they are saying 22 pistol.sparx wrote:I just hope that doesn't turn into a .223 rifle, then morph into an "automatic assault rifle"... already heard on the AP news video reporters describing "one of those automatic assault rifles" a policeman exited his car with.Will wrote:and a .22 rifle now.
This whole tragedy is horrendous and sad, and our prayers are definately needed, but not only for the victims and those affected. My hopes is that one or more of those affected souls will stand up and fight for the right to carry on campus just as Suzzana Hupp did for our rights to carry here in Texas, and more importantly they be listened to and have their say be effective in making a change for the better.
-Will