Bill of Sale

[Marty Graw]

Inversely without a bill of sale with the buyer's info and serial number I'd never sell a firearm.
I want to record the firearm has in fact been sold.
I want a record of whom it was sold to, so that if that firearm is ever used in a crime, it won't come back to me, that I have proof that its no longer mine. If you don't like those terms then you don't need to buy from me, and I don't have to sell to you.

ID is too easy to fake. The only safe thing is fingerprints or DNA. I like a thumbprint in their own blood because it's two for one.

[TexasRedneck]

This is an old thread, but rather than start a new one, I figured I'd toss in my comments here.....

I'm seeing more and more folks calling for "Bill of Sale" with gun transactions....IMO, all they're doing is showing their complete lack of knowledge about how the legal system REALLY works.

Unless notarized, a BOS has NO legal standing. Further, there's NO requirement for same - so those wanting it are demanding something we have NO requirement to do, and instead they're wanting personal information that can be lost/stolen - and the person whose personal information was on it won't know it until they become a victim of someone breaking into their home because of the information provided on that BOS that not only told WHO and WHERE they are, but that they've got something worth stealing, as well.

More importantly....many have died over the years to ensure our freedoms - and now some fools are demanding that we give them up on THEIR whim. So - if you want a BOS, you can bet it'll be a cold day in h*** before *I* will be contacting you!

You wanna see my TDL or CHL? No problem/issue with that - that's a common-sense precaution to take. If something about me, or the way the deal is going down makes you nervous, it's entirely within your rights to decline to complete the sale. But to demand personal information that will do you absolutely NO good in the eyes of the law, and could potentially damage ME....ain't gonna happen, scooter!

[Beiruty]

When you sell a firearm, and let us say said firearm was stolen and/or used in crime and was tossed. Let us say, it was traced back to you. FBI can trace it back to original owner if they want to. FBI would visit the original owner and start digging up for answers how and why the gun was used in a crime. The original owner will disclose the the purchaser info and date of sale. It is just a record to prove that a sale transaction took place and simple record of who was the buyer.
Their no need to that BOS is a legal binding document. It is just sales record.

[carlson1]

I find this a complete contradiction. We all profess to believe in the right to keep and bear arms, and if the government says they want private parties to go through FFL's, you claim to have an issue with it, but then we turn right around and further restrict our right to keep and bear arms when it is totally unnecessary. Unbelievable...no need to try and justify it. I understand all the fear based reasoning. It is the EXACT same reasoning for libtards wanting to restrict private party sales. If I were a libtard, I would say, what the heck? Why should you care? You already act as if there is some inherent danger in selling firearms. It is one thing to want to see a DL for evidence of residency, but to act as if the RKBA should be recorded and documented in writing, is a whole different issue. The law simply requires we use some common sense and not sell to someone who we know is a felon. I really don't get why anyone who believes in the RKBA would add rules that serve no legal purpose other than to admit guns should all be registered and recorded. You have ZERO liability when selling a firearm to a private party as long as it cannot be proven that you knew the buyer was a felon.

It isn't exactly an honor to be allowed to purchase your handgun. There are many more out there for sale that don't feel it necessary to insult the buyer by acting as if they think he has to earn the right to buy a gun.

[Beiruty]

As per FFL transfer. If your do what is required by Texas law. You are golden. Just do the minimum effort required that you are not selling to criminal or it straw purchase for a crimanls.

[TexasRedneck]

When you sell a firearm, and let us say said firearm was stolen and/or used in crime and was tossed. Let us say, it was traced back to you. FBI can trace it back to original owner if they want to. FBI would visit the original owner and start digging up for answers how and why the gun was used in a crime. The original owner will disclose the the purchaser info and date of sale. It is just a record to prove that a sale transaction took place and simple record of who was the buyer.
Their no need to that BOS is a legal binding document. It is just sales record.

They trace it back to me...."Sorry - sold that thing, don't recall name of buyer." Done. End of Story, there's no requirement to have any kind of record. It is NOT a "sales record", because without a notary, there is NO legal standing of that document - it's just a piece of paper someone lacking basic understanding has concocted to somehow make them feel like they "covered their behinds"....instead, all they've done is what we've demanded the government NOT do.

[RPB]

When you sell a firearm, and let us say said firearm was stolen and/or used in crime and was tossed. Let us say, it was traced back to you. FBI can trace it back to original owner if they want to. FBI would visit the original owner and start digging up for answers how and why the gun was used in a crime. The original owner will disclose the the purchaser info and date of sale. It is just a record to prove that a sale transaction took place and simple record of who was the buyer.
Their no need to that BOS is a legal binding document. It is just sales record.

They trace it back to me...."Sorry - sold that thing, don't recall name of buyer." Done. End of Story, there's no requirement to have any kind of record. It is NOT a "sales record", because without a notary, there is NO legal standing of that document - it's just a piece of paper someone lacking basic understanding has concocted to somehow make them feel like they "covered their behinds"....instead, all they've done is what we've demanded the government NOT do.

Last time I asked for a bill of sale before I knew better or kept any record/wrote who I sold to on a receipt with serial number ... was in the early 1980s when I sold Glocks to Police Officers who loved their .357s and reluctantly got talked into buying a Glock by other officers. (I figured it documented a sale if it became a throwdown gun)

But there's no reason to imho. In fact, I prefer knowing I sold it to "some CHL who I saw a license but didn't write down the name/city/address etc. ... perhaps he re-sold it and after 7 or 8 re-sells/trades it couldda been stolen or lost and used in a crime, so go see if a criminal reported the transaction of receiving a stolen firearm or if someone reported it "found" and there you have it...While you are at it see if you can find out who now owns the used dishwasher I sold in a yard sale in the 1970-s, it was a avocado green, Maytag ...serial number BR-549 "

[bizarrenormality]

My personal information is not required by law for a private sale so it looks like providing false information is not a crime.

[G26ster]

I think it's called "freedom." A person has the right not to provide information that isn't required by law, and a person has the right to ask for that information, as long as it doesn't violate a law. Simple. You don't want a bill of sale, then don't do business with anyone that asks for one. Doesn't mean they're ignorant, and your desire not to provide that information doesn't out weigh their desire to have it. Just MHO.

[77346]

Unless I was buying/selling to someone I know, I see nothing wrong with asking for a BoS... either if buying or selling, I would want one with both DL's. If I buy a firearm with some "history" I would like to be able to prove that I got it from someone else if need be...

[srothstein]

I think you all have it backwards. I want a bill of sale when i buy a gun, especially a used one in a private sale. It does help cover me if there turns out to be something wrong with the gun. I don't see how it helps the seller, but I can see it protecting the buyer.

[TexasRedneck]

I think you all have it backwards. I want a bill of sale when i buy a gun, especially a used one in a private sale. It does help cover me if there turns out to be something wrong with the gun. I don't see how it helps the seller, but I can see it protecting the buyer.

Now ah'm REALLY confused!!! In what possible way does it "protect" the buyer?!??

[TexasRedneck]

Unless I was buying/selling to someone I know, I see nothing wrong with asking for a BoS... either if buying or selling, I would want one with both DL's. If I buy a firearm with some "history" I would like to be able to prove that I got it from someone else if need be...

Then you can buy/sell with someone other than myself. You have NO legal reason to have my DL info, nor I yours. It's begging for ID theft, and provides no real "protection".

Folks, ya'll need to educate yourselves w/regards to the LEGAL REQUIREMENTS to buy/sell a gun - at the rate you're going, the anti's are gonna be able to pass all kinds of new regulations/restrictions, and many here will happily help 'em!

[03Lightningrocks]

I think you all have it backwards. I want a bill of sale when i buy a gun, especially a used one in a private sale. It does help cover me if there turns out to be something wrong with the gun. I don't see how it helps the seller, but I can see it protecting the buyer.

Lol... I had not thought about it like this but you have a good point. The seller has zero legal risk as long as they don't knowingly sell to a felon or a person residing from out of State. The buyer on the other hand, may find themselves explaining where they bought the stolen gun and possibly having the gun confiscated if it is stolen and returned to the rightful owner.

What appears to be happening though, is some folks are taking it apon themselves to determine who has the right to buy a gun. This does make them anti RKBA, whether they want to admit it to themselves or not. It is from the same basic family as the group who want to determine the purpose for the ownership of a firearm or the same folks who want to decide how many rounds a weapon should hold.

I'm with you... From now on, I buy a gun from a private party, I get a bill of sale with a copy pf their DL to prove they are not thieves. They get nothing but cash from me or we don't make the deal.

[mr surveyor]

.......................BR-549 "

so, now you're giving out my phone number?


Personally, I don't care about any "Bill of Sale". I do get the name of the buyer (normally someone I know anyway) and make notes for my own benefit. I have paper folders, as well as "electronic folders" of "Guns Still Owned" and "Guns No Longer Owned", with the dollar amounts and other info tied to them. More for inventory and/or insurance purposes than anything else. I take a lot of pictures of my guns and original "paperwork" for future needs (also store pdf's of the owner's manuals with the electronic files). Not too concerned about reprocussions from sales of firearms, but I usually know enough about the buyer (or seller in the event of me being the buyer) to not be concerned. But then again, I don't mingle with strangers much as I generally stay within a pretty tight circle of small town gun buddies.