FFL still running E-Check when i have a CHL holders

[9mmLover]

so ive been using a new FFL since my old one stopped doing transfers.

I have done 3 transfers through him and here is how it goes down when i show up to pick up my gun

1)hands me a yellow pamphlet about gun safety- keeping guns away from kids etc
2)hands me a 4473 which i fill out
3)takes my CHL and TXDL and makes a copy
4)proceeds to do what looks like an e-check because i can clearly see him reading stuff off the 4473, and typing it into his laptop
5)gets some sort of number off the website he was on, writes it in on the 4473, and signs it.

then he goes into his safe and pulls out my gun.

i thought as a CHL holder i can bypass the e-check/ phone call for background check. is what he is doing illegal? or do FFLs have the liberty to do an e-check even though i have a valid CHL?

just curious because i have been told one of the perks of having a CHL is not having to wait for the check.

[Beiruty]

It is not illegal to do NICS check when you have a CHL. It was reported that Academy is doing the same. If you do not like your FFL, find a new one.

[AEA]

You need to find another FFL that respects the advantages of being a Texas CHL holder.

You did not mention where you are located. Here is a good search tool for FFL's, just enter your zip code:

http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Call a few of them and ask them if they respect the FACT that the Texas CHL negates the need for a NICS check. You will find many more that do than those that don't.

[ryanr1299]

As an FFL I really appreciate when someone has a CHL, that's why I offer discounts on transfers for CHL's. Maybe your current dealer is just overly cautious or unaware, but to me I much prefer to not have to run the NICS check...if it's a bother for you, mention it to him, if he still insists, find a new dealer.

[v-rog]

The FFL I used the other day only charges $10 for CHLs and doesn't run the paperwork. His name is Jeff and he is located in Bedford.

[9mmLover]

Im in Sugar Land, abut 20 miles south west of Houston. He lives right down the street from me.

the reason i ask is yesterday, while doing a gun trade with a guy i met on texas gun trader, Houston police drove by and saw the gun, and immediately approached us. I put my hands up before he could get out of the car and identified myself as a CHL holder with a weapon at 9oclock.

he disarmed me, then ran both parties IDs to check for warrants. next thing i know, there's 3 unmarked cars pulling up. BATFE agents. they run all the guns and one of them- one that belonged to the the other guy, came up as stolen from another state- but it was a false positive as the serial number was off 1 letter.

anyways while i was temporarily detained in the back of the squad car, and ATF agent came in and went to a website, and i recognized a date- it was my 18th birthday- the day i bought my first gun- a shotgun from academy, and it had what i am assuming to be an approval number for the 4473, and there was a column for FFL #. didnt say the make/model/serial number, but he basically had a list of every 4473 i ever filled out. there was about 8 or 9, the most recent being earlier this year, which went through the FFL in question.

in the end everything checked out and we were allowed to do our deal and go on our way. none the less im sure im on the ATFs radar because my first name is Mohammed, and i was born in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, but i moved here in 10th grade in 1999, and am a naturalized citizen. hell i havent left the country and ive lived in the same county-fort bend- since moving here.

i was surprised to see the ATF knows of every 4473 filled out and the name to go with it.

as a CHL holder, i thought all he was doing was filling out a spreadsheet of some sort for his records, but now that i think about it, he was doing an E-Check because after reading some stuff off the 4473, he would type it in, then im sure he got an NTN which he wrote onto the 4473 and signed it.

i will be looking for another FFL.

[mrvmax]

The yellow "Youth Handgun Safety Act" pamphlet is required with all handguns. The NICS check is not required if you have a CHL and I never do one for CHL holders. I have control of all my 4473's from every customer. The only way the ATF gets them is if I go out of business. They are free to look over them in audits but they are not supposed to take them without the FFL's permission. I value my customers info so I keep them secure. I'm not sure how the big box stores work but I do not like the idea of the ATF having access to data they do not need. I follow every law but I will not go farther than the law requires and give extra info. The 4473 does not tell make/model/serial number of the gun so the ATF only knows if it is a handgun or long gun.

[G.A. Heath]

If the ATF guy had a list of every firearm transaction you have made with a dealer that ran a NICS check then you really need to contact the NRA and make them aware of it. Proceed NICS records are supposed to be destroyed by the end of the next day and the federal government is not supposed to be keeping a registry of firearms either.

[9mmLover]

he didnt have the make/model of the guns. just what appeared to be the date of FFL transfer/ FFL's licence #, and a number that might have been the 4473 approval code. or i might be way wrong. its just that after he did some stuff on the computer in the squad car, he asked me if i have alot of guns, because the list was long. could have been something totally different.

again im not 100% certain if thats what it was because i was looking at the screen from the back seat of a squad car. i am assuming thats what it was becauset- my 18th birthday, i know for a fact was my first firearm purchase- a mossberg maverick from academy- october 28th 2000.

[9mmLover]

If the ATF guy had a list of every firearm transaction you have made with a dealer that ran a NICS check then you really need to contact the NRA and make them aware of it. Proceed NICS records are supposed to be destroyed by the end of the next day and the federal government is not supposed to be keeping a registry of firearms either.

i thought processed 4473s are supposed to be kept on file for a certain number of years. and since they are called in or e-checked, i wouldnt be surprised at all if the ATF has a list, since they call in your name, DOB, place of birth, etc etc. sure its for the FBI background check to see if you can legally own a firearm, but it might also be a list the ATF is compiling. i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

[tacticool]

If the ATF guy had a list of every firearm transaction you have made with a dealer that ran a NICS check then you really need to contact the NRA and make them aware of it. Proceed NICS records are supposed to be destroyed by the end of the next day and the federal government is not supposed to be keeping a registry of firearms either.

Right. And the Social Security Number was not supposed to be used for identification.

[G.A. Heath]

If the ATF guy had a list of every firearm transaction you have made with a dealer that ran a NICS check then you really need to contact the NRA and make them aware of it. Proceed NICS records are supposed to be destroyed by the end of the next day and the federal government is not supposed to be keeping a registry of firearms either.

i thought processed 4473s are supposed to be kept on file for a certain number of years. and since they are called in or e-checked, i wouldnt be surprised at all if the ATF has a list, since they call in your name, DOB, place of birth, etc etc. sure its for the FBI background check to see if you can legally own a firearm, but it might also be a list the ATF is compiling. i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

The dealer is supposed to keep the 4473s for so long or until the dealer goes out of business, the government keeping the NICS record is illegal.

[Teamless]

while doing a gun trade with a guy i met on texas gun trader, Houston police drove by and saw the gun,

how did the cop see the gun?
Concealed is concealed, even when doing a sale, unless you are in a store or other area to sell/buy weapons
I have done 2 'in car' sales of guns, you keep them low and out of sight, any more than that, you are not concealed.

[G.A. Heath]

If the ATF guy had a list of every firearm transaction you have made with a dealer that ran a NICS check then you really need to contact the NRA and make them aware of it. Proceed NICS records are supposed to be destroyed by the end of the next day and the federal government is not supposed to be keeping a registry of firearms either.

Right. And the Social Security Number was not supposed to be used for identification.

I believe it was the Clinton administration that got into trouble over keeping such records.

[Domineaux]

Yes the 4473 record is to be kept by the dealer and the Federal government including ATF are required to destroy the records, I believe within 48 hours or they are in violation of the federal law.