I want to buy my first AR

[Scott in Houston]

I decided against building my first AR after a lot of reading. I think for my first, I may not know what I need/want or what would be the best.
I have decided buying a fully assembled AR from a manufacturer would be best. Then I can get to know it, and determine what I really like and dislike and maybe build one later.

Anyway, I want a quality AR. I don't want to be disappointed with it later. I'd like it to be flexible so I can add rails (if it doesn't have them already), etc.
The purpose for this rifle would be fun, and potentially home defense. I don't plan on adding a scope as I don't see me using it for anything much farther than 50 - 100 yards, and that would also hinder its use for close range such as home defense.

In my limited amount of 'shopping' I've come away with a few that catch my eye, but I'm just not sure of which would be best.

The S&W M&P series is one that seems to be a decent 'entry-level' rifle. It's about $900 or so, and I would need to add rail(s) for a weapon light.

I have heard you cannot lose with Colt, but I have yet to see one in person. I believe a good Colt would run me around $1300?

And at Academy, there is a Sig that is pricey at $1800, but it is NICE.

haha. I'm just looking for suggestions and a big thing....
Where can I buy one of these, get knowledgable help, but not get ripped off like you do at places like Carter's Country... dang their prices are high.

[maverick2076]

A couple of comments:

I've been doing the research like you for my first AR. I will still probably build. As long as you know what barrel and gas-tube length you want, everything else is pretty much modular and can be added on later. You are going to change stuff as time goes on, so don't let that dissuade you from building.

Personally, from all the reading and research I have done, I feel that an average user isn't going to see a whole lot of difference between the brands. I would posit that even a serious shooter isn't going to see enough difference to justify paying the extra amount between some of the mid-level manufacturers and the expensive brands. My 2 cents says there is a lot of brand snobbery in the AR world, and some people just feel better about having "the best brand" or a "Tier One manufacturer" rifle based of some forum-dweller's spreadsheet that has been floating around the Net for the last couple years. Bottom line: buy from who you feel comfortable makes a quality level that you can accept. For me, I'll avoid Olympic/Hesse/whatever else they go by, but I have no problems building myself a kit from Del-Ton, or buying a Stag, or a Spikes, or RRA. I feel that Colt or Noveske just don't offer me enough to justify the extra money. I'd rather put that money into optics, other accessories, or ammo.

Speaking of optics: Based on your description of what shooting you do, I would consider some of the unmagnified reflex optics for your AR, such as the Aimpoint, EoTech, or Trijicon Reflex. These sights are designed for the closer shooting work you describe, and are worth the money for ease of use and speed of acquistion.

One last comment: Many AR guys harp on Mil-spec, and brag about how much closer their rifle is to "mil-spec" than other rifles. Before you fall into that trap, understand what mil-spec is. Mil-spec is a set of design and testing qualifications that contractors have to meet to get a product purchased my the military. While mil-spec is designed to ensure quality, it is often written by bureaucrats and tailored to very specific concerns. While a lot of mil-spec requirements start of as well meaning design specs, they can quickly become overbearing and esoteric. Don't take mil-spec as being a basic minimum requirement for reliable function. Mil-spec is how we end up with $300 hammers and $1500 wristwatches with National Stock Numbers for me to order in my supply catalog.

[wninja]

Based on your mention of Carter's Country, I am going to assume you are from Houston.

I was browsing through the equipment exchange forum at AR15.com and saw one Houston area dealer with some very decent prices on Rock River Arms AR15s. They're going to be in the same neighborhood as S&W M&P15s price-wise. As for quality...well the DEA uses RRA rifles, that's gotta mean something right? The RRA rifles I was looking at comes with rails and you get your choice of a rear sight as well (though the choices are limited to different variations of an A2 style rear sight).

The dealer is Class 3 Weapons. I skimmed through a few other prices on their ARs on the website and they seem pretty fair too, S&W for $862 and the most expensive Sig rifle was a designated marksman model at $1900. I would head over there and check them out. You'd get to see them all up close and maybe handle a few of them. As far as getting knowledgeable help...I've never shopped there so I can't comment on that.

Oh, and don't go with the $1800 rifle for the first rifle. Get an entry level one. You'll hit $1800 once you start putting things on there. Lights, lasers, Eotechs, ACOGs, time machines, etc.

[Scott in Houston]

Thanks guys!

Maverick,
I appreciate the thoughts on "mil spec". I'm with you understanding that decisions government makes, aren't necessarily a rubber-stamp for anything other than bureaucracy and waste.
To clarify, that $1800 Sig had an Eotech type sight on it, so the rifle itself is probably more like $1500, but still expensive, and your advice is probably spot on. I think that's what attracted me to the sig was the optic. I would bet it's a decent optic, but I'd probably be better served to buy a rifle without one, then buy a good one separately from Eotech or a similar brand.

wninja, I am in Houston, and thanks for the tip on Class 3 Weapons. I'll check that out. I definitely want to hold and inspect something before I buy.
I didn't know that about RRA and the DEA. I will have to look into those. That sounds like a better starting package than the S&W.
I definitely want a light, and potentially a laser. I have limited use for a time machine though... I mean really, what can you do with one of those?

[maverick2076]

That Sig is a nice rifle. However, it is a piston-driven AR, and it is a Sig: both of these conspire to drive up the price. Personally, I don't see the need for a piston AR. I've been shooting DI models for the last 12 years in the Army and have had no problems.

Fountain Firearms on Hwy 6 has a good selection, but only go there if you can talk to John or Sloan. They've got some younger guys working there now who are absolute idiots. Their prices are a little high, but not as bad as Carter's Country.

Carroll's Guns in Wharton does not have a whole lot of selection on AR's , but they do have a few and their prices aren't too bad. Plus, Jim and Brick are two of the nicest guys around to deal with, and they will order you anything you want.

Tactical Firearms on Mason Road in Katy is pretty new, and kinda small, but they have good prices and very quick service. As the name implies, they specialize in the AR and other tactical firearms and accessories.

[Scott in Houston]

Oh... I had forgotten about Tactical Firearms. I'm in Katy myself and went there to shoot their simulator range once.
They seem like a great group of guys and enthusiasts running that place.

Fountain seems ok to me, but close in price to Carter's Country and other expensive outfits. I'll window shop there though. :)
Thanks for the tips on whom to talk to. Gun shops are so funny about their 'idiots' and they are almost always the young guys. lol

[maverick2076]

Champion in CS is not too far of a drive, and they probably will have the best prices around. However, you do have to be careful with their service quality and people trying to upsell you into a more expensive firearm than what you are looking for. The last time I went was a pretty good experience (I bought my Kahr there) but I have had bad experiences there before.

As far as Fountain goes- Sloan and John are great. If they aren't there, or are busy, I either wait or come back another day. It's not worth the aggravation to deal with or even listen to a couple of the kids that work there.

[bigred90gt]

My first (and so far only) AR is the S&W M&P15OR, and I have no complaints. In several thousand rounds, it has never not fired, not fed, or not ejected a round, and it is more accurate that I am. I paid $699 for it, and then got a $100 mail in rebate. I ended up putting a UTG quad rail on it with a vertical fore grip, a flash light with a pressure switch, an ambi safety selector, and some Magpul flip up sights and a really cheap BSA Red Dot (which will get put on an air rifle when I get one and replaced with an eotech). I also put a different pistol grip on it. I'm still under $1000 on total spent, and have what I consider a nice rifle. These pics are before the new pistol grip.

[wninja]

I definitely want a light, and potentially a laser. I have limited use for a time machine though... I mean really, what can you do with one of those?

You can see where your rounds will impact before you fire them.

[MoJo]

I have an S&W M&P MOE. I bought mine online from Bud's Gun Shop. The price includes shipping the only extra charge is the transfer fee. The MOE is a flattop with BUIS all I've done with mine is add an Elzetta light mount and put a red dot on it. The M&P is Texas DPS' new patrol rifle replacing their aging Mini 14 rifles.

[Keith]

I just bought a great AR at a good price. I have a DPMS AR in .308 and luv it. No issues at all. My only complaint is 18 inch barrel,Tripod and scope it weighs 15 lbs way to much to lug around in woods.

I wanted another one to take HOG hunting and for the home. The .556(223) is great but I wanted a little more fire power. All of the .308 ARs were either more money then I wanted to spend or a little on the heavy side. I a good size guy but lug a rifle around all day and evry little bit of extra weight adds up.

The I saw her she was my dream come true. Sold at Cabelas only. A DPMS Sportical AR in 7.62x39. Went and looked at gun and fell in love with it. Gun comes with 2--30 round clips,Adj stock and she weighs about 6 lbs M/T. Has a rail on top were I mounted a Red Dot. It just needs a sling and she is ready to go. Here was the Deal breaker I bought her for 729.00. DPMS make good rifles. Its worth a look at.

The 7.62 give u more punch then a .556. The AKs I looked at were good but I wanted a little better quality rifle.. This rifle answered that for me. Do a search DPMS sportical rifle in 7.62x39 and you can see pics.

[gwashorn]

Well, my two cents then, when I got mine and it was my first, I too did all the looking and research. I ended up with and very happy with the ones built by The Arms Room. They own Holland Gun Works and use the Mega Gator upper and lowers. I then picked out the rest of the components and had them build it. There are others you can check into, but if in Houston and on the South side, you might give them a shot too. I was very happy with mine for sure. Very accurate and works great.

On optics, I went with the Eotech for the closer range work. Great for old tired eyes.

Gary

[Zoomie]

I agree with those who warned about factoring in the price of accessories, but I would also point out that if you go with a real basic entry level rifle, and then decide you want a better one later, you'd have been better off just buying a high quality one in the beginning. This argument goes for any gun. I personally think Colts, LMT's are great, and have heard good things about LWRC and Noveske, but have never shot either. I bought an entry level AR, and am now planning on buying an LMT MRP upper, because the upper receiver I have now is limiting what I would like to accomplish, and I wish I would have held off and saved up for a LMT in the first place. Also consider taking a class to learn how to really run your AR hard once you have it. Good Luck!

[Scott in Houston]

I'm already ahead of you on the classes. SRVA, Steve, on this site will likely be my instructor.

I'm leaning toward purchasing one of these... Includes a rear site of my choice.

http://www.class3weapons.com/Rock_River ... _s/122.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks wninja for the pointer on this site/store.

[gigag04]

Regarding Maverick's thoughts on "some spreadsheet" and that most people won't see a difference between a high end rifle, and a mid range one, why spend 5-600 on a quality optic? I'm sure a BSA red dot will work fine for these same users?

To add a different perspective, the spreadsheet details the level of testing a maker's rifles are put through before leaving the factory, among other things, like who has a better, more rugged bolt carrier group. To some, this is mere trivial information...

To others it helps decide whether weapon platform is likely to hold up under even the most extreme conditions. My primary rifle doesn't see conditions too extreme like a desert, but it is used frequently for work, gets banged around, wet, and dirty a lot, and I need it to work.