Felony and firearms

[attila79]

I know a having a felony on you record prohibits you from obtaining a chl, but I have a friend who wants to buy a deer rifle. However, in his youth (17 yrs) he committed a stupid mistake. He is now 33 and wants to start hunting. I don't know the law with it comes to just simply owning a firearm with a felony record. Is there a time limit or does the law prohibit you from ever having a firearm? My first inclination is no, but I want to make sure.

Thanks

[marksiwel]

I know a having a felony on you record prohibits you from obtaining a chl, but I have a friend who wants to buy a deer rifle. However, in his youth (17 yrs) he committed a stupid mistake. He is now 33 and wants to start hunting. I don't know the law with it comes to just simply owning a firearm with a felony record. Is there a time limit or does the law prohibit you from ever having a firearm? My first inclination is no, but I want to make sure.

Thanks

I guess you could see if he passes the background check when getting a Rifle
Talk to a Lawyer/call the sheriff/chief of police

[MoJo]

I know a having a felony on you record prohibits you from obtaining a chl, but I have a friend who wants to buy a deer rifle. However, in his youth (17 yrs) he committed a stupid mistake. He is now 33 and wants to start hunting. I don't know the law with it comes to just simply owning a firearm with a felony record. Is there a time limit or does the law prohibit you from ever having a firearm? My first inclination is no, but I want to make sure.

Thanks

I guess you could see if he passes the background check when getting a Rifle
Talk to a Lawyer/call the sheriff/chief of police

In most cases a felony permanently bars someone from having control of a gun. That means you can't take your friend to a range and let him shoot your gun. He might be able to get his record expunged depending on the crime and the circumstances. He needs to consult an attorney.

[boomerang]

I think he's good to go under Texas law on his own property but prohibited under Federal law.

I
Am
Not
Abraham's
Lawyer

[gigag04]

Texas law is 5yrs (for most felonies) IIRC. I think federal law would only matter if you were convicted on a federal felonly (ie tried in Fed Court).


I was wrong...quick google search turned up this:

This is a situation where you would go wrong if you only looked at Texas law. Texas law lets a convicted felon possess a firearm on the premises where he lives once five years have elapsed from his release from prison or from parole, whichever is later. Texas Penal Code §46.04.

However, federal law is much stricter. It generally prohibits a person convicted of a crime "punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" from possessing a firearm. The test is the length of possible punishment, not whether the crime is called a misdemeanor or a felony. No exception is made for having a firearm at the home, no matter how long ago the conviction. 18 U.S.C. § 922(g).

Also, Federal law makes it unlawful for anyone under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to receive (possess) any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce. 18 U.S.C. § 922(n).

Found at: http://www.burger.com/gunfaq02.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bdickens]

I think he can forget it.

[flb_78]

I think it would depend on his conviction. Was he convicted as a adult or as a minor?

Either way, this just shows how stupid the felon=no gun law is.

[RECIT]

I have a friend that has declined several invitations to the local range before and I finally asked him whats up? He said he made some dumb choices a youngster that will plague him for the rest of his life. In other words he is a felon. He has shot with me a few times at my parents house (private range), but he is not interested in trying his luck at a public range. Not that hey check your background for wanting to shoot, but he just does not want to chance getting in any trouble.

[hirundo82]

If he wants to start deer hunting, there is nothing in federal law that prohibits him from owning and using a muzzleloader or a gun manufactured before 1898--they somply are not firearms under federal law:

18 USC § 921. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

(emphases mine)

So even a modern black powder gun can be owned by a felon under federal law.

[newTexan]

IANAL, but I do have a friend with problems in his past who is able to own and carry. Your mileage may vary, but here's what I know of his story....

He apparently messed up pretty royally around age 16, was tried in juvenile court of a act that "would have been a felony if committed as an adult", paid his dues, etc..
Now he's in his mid-40's and is one of the reasons I got interested in shooting/CHL. Turns out he got scared straight. According to him, since juvenile courts have a lower burden of proof than adult courts, most states do NOT treat juvenile courts as convictions for the imposition of civil penalties (like loss of gun rights). Texas for instance overlooks it after so many years. The federal government does NOT treat juvie court as a conviction under federal law, so there is no federal problem.

So, even with a juvie felony, my friend can pass a NICS check, own a gun, get a CHL, etc...

IF you were 17 and tried in JUVENILE court then you should have no problems AFAIK.
IF you were 17 and got tried and convicted in ADULT court, then I suggest you take up archery.

[MoJo]

If he wants to start deer hunting, there is nothing in federal law that prohibits him from owning and using a muzzleloader or a gun manufactured before 1898--they somply are not firearms under federal law:

18 USC § 921. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

(emphases mine)

So even a modern black powder gun can be owned by a felon under federal law.

I still say consult an attorney - - - I would hate for information gleaned from this thread to be the cause of an otherwise law abiding citizen going to prison over bad information.

Charles?

[boomerang]

IF you were 17 and tried in JUVENILE court then you should have no problems AFAIK.

I don't think that's possible in Texas, except as a result of acts committed before becoming 17.

[srothstein]

I would recommend the friend contacting an attorney and paying for him to do the research for accurate information. A big part of the question will be the exact crime and sentence, and which court handled it. Juvenile court in Texas is not considered a conviction but the could certify to adult court. At 17, if the offense was committed before his birthday, he might still have ended up in juvenile court even though legally an adult for other crimes. If he had a clean record when the offense occurred, it is also possible he got some form of deferred adjudication, which would mean no conviction on his record now. The only person who will know for sure is the friend, and even he might need the research done to be 100% accurate (not many people are paying attention to the legal minutiae when they are standing there facing the judge, especially at 17.

As I understand the law, under both state and federal law, most (not all) black powder guns are not considered firearms. Even felons could have them for a hobby, home defense, or hunting. The reason i say most is that I think there was a legal question on the new in-line black powder guns that are not a replica of the antiques at all (and the law usually says made before 1899 or a replica of one - or words like that).

But, if he is more interested in hunting than in firearms, he can always try bow hunting. To the best of my knowledge, there are no restrictions on bows, including crossbows, based on conviction rates. And it can be much more challenging than hunting with a rifle. Of course, crossbows are now legal too, so it can be almost as easy as using a single shot rifle.

[chabouk]

Here's one caution about "antiques" (made before January 1, 1899): while they might not legally be firearms, the ammunition can get you in trouble.

I'll have to search for it later, but I read about a case in the past couple of years, where a felon deliberately owned a pre-'99 revolver to avoid that charge. There was an accusation that he'd shot at someone, his car was searched, the gun was found, and he was convicted. Not for being a felon in possession of a firearm, because he raised the "antique" defense, but for five counts of being a felon in possession of "ammunition or ammunition components" for the (IIRC) three empty shells and two live rounds in the revolver.

That doesn't apply to cap & ball arms, but there are lots of antique firearms that fire modern ammunition. That ammo is a no-no for felons.

[attila79]

Thanks for all the suggestions/advice. As far as I know he was convicted has a adult even though he was a minor. Guess he'll just have to consult a lawyer hopefully he me able to hear some good news.