Friend had to draw his weapon tonight for protection

[Charles L. Cotton]

As others have said, my personal policy and the policy I recommend to others is to call the police immediately if you have to display your pistol. Notice I said display, not merely get my hand on it under my shirt or suit coat. Even then it might be prudent to call the police, if or in case someone saw you make that provocative move. You want to be the first person relating the facts to the police.

In all candor, there is a danger in this, if the facts you relate to the police do not support the use or threat to use deadly force. I realize the original post was a Reader's Digest condensed version of the facts, but on that little information, I think your friend might have a problem, if this incident is reported to the police as described. As others have said, I didn't get the feeling that he "reasonably believed that deadly force was immediately necessary to prevent the other's use of unlawful deadly force." However, the threat of deadly force under TPC §9.04 may have been justified. If so, I believe it would be a close call and very possibly one to be made by a jury. Not being able to identify what was in the "attacker's" hand cuts two ways and a good trial lawyer, whether prosecutor or defense attorney, can get some mileage out of it.

Now, let me take off my lawyer hat and put on my instructor/teacher/perennial-student hat. I would never support a change in Texas law to require more training, or more frequent qualification, to obtain or renew a CHL. However, anyone serious enough about self-defense to get a CHL and carry a gun should dedicate a reasonable amount of time and money to get training and to practice! The greater your skill level, the longer you can delay deploying a firearm and still be able to defend yourself. Equally important is the fact that you will better understand when it's time to push the "GO" button and how to go about it. There are be tactical reasons why leaving a vehicle would be prudent, but they are rare. There are also factual/legal ramifications for leaving a vehicle to point a gun at someone, not the least of which is how as rookie prosecutor, grand jury, or trial jury are going to interpret such actions.

I occasionally tell a story about myself that helps to explain why I stress that training and practice can save not only your life, it can help you avoid having to injure or kill someone the law allows you to shoot. I don't want to tell it in a forum open to the entire world, but suffice it to say that there is a man alive today solely because I had sufficient confidence in my shooting skills to delay taking a shot. The shooting would have been justified, but he would have died for a relatively minor infraction and I would have been second-guessing myself for years.

Learn the law, not just by reading the Penal Code, but learn also how it works in the real world. Then get training and practice what you're taught; not once or twice a year, but on a regular basis. I tell my students that completing any class or course does not equate to mastering the skills and concepts presented. The most an instructor can do is teach you what you need to learn and master by practice. And this doesn't apply only to the neophyte, it applies to all of us. As Gregg Garrett, owner of Comp-Tac said in the excellent seminar he gave at the 2007 TexasCHLforum Day at PSC, "the mark of a good instructor is that they always consider themselves lifelong students." Gregg is a very wise man and we'd all do well to heed his message.

[Oops, how did I get up on this soapbox -- again!?]

Chas.

[KC5AV]

I quickly skimmed the first few posts, but didn't find anything to indicate that the friend is actually a CHL holder.

John

[tboesche]

I have to agree with the consensu that your "friend" overreacted. With out provocation he drew a weapon and pointed it at another. He would have been much better off staying in the truck with the doors locked. He could have easily conversed with the other gentleman thru the window. If that guy continued to try and get at your "friend" then he would have options. After drawing down on the suspected BG, his only options were to pray that the BG turns around and leaves, Thankfully THAT is what happened, or, Shoot the guy! I personally believe that option 2 would have left your "friend" in a heap O trouble. By staying in the truck and and trying to talk to the suspected bad guy he has done several things: (think conflict resolution)
1. He could have verified the BG's intentions.I.E. did he truly have a weapon or tool in his hand that he intended to use as a weapon.
2. He put a barrier betweeen him and the BG offering an opportunity to "work it out"
3. He may have been able to just drive off as traffic opened up.
4. If he did then actually have to shoot, The passersby that could be witnesses' would likely say that BG was trying REAL hard to get into your "friends" truck, or that he did infact have a weapon or tool that he was using. This would go a long way to your "friends" case.

As it stands, Looks like he overreacted.

Drawing a gun MUST be a final solution, Chances are it WILL be for the bad guy. You'd better make sure before you draw.

[Snake Doctor]

So Charles, what happens if this guy goes on without reporting the incident to police? How long can a witness or the driver (who was drawn upon) wait to say something? I guess I'm just thinking that it sounds like this guy might be simply trying to lay low and hope no one says anything? Could this come back to bite him?

I find these legal discussions--even if based mostly in speculation--to be quite interesting.

[seamusTX]

I'm not Charles, but in my opinion, if nothing happens within 24 hours, nothing will happen. Maybe the other guy was too scared to note the details. Maybe he had a reason for not calling the police (like he was drunk or has warrants).

I was involved in an incident once where someone tried to get me out of my car. He failed. I simply drove away from him. But then he called the cops and told them I had tried to run over him (this was long before cell phones). The cops had called my house to investigate before I got home.

- Jim

[Charles L. Cotton]

So Charles, what happens if this guy goes on without reporting the incident to police? How long can a witness or the driver (who was drawn upon) wait to say something? I guess I'm just thinking that it sounds like this guy might be simply trying to lay low and hope no one says anything? Could this come back to bite him?

I find these legal discussions--even if based mostly in speculation--to be quite interesting.

That's a good question; I wish I had an equally good answer, but I don't. It's too late to "call immediately" and the justification isn't that clear to me, but again, there could be more to this event. Even if there is, I'm not sure how reporting it this long after the incident would be viewed by law enforcement. I'd like to hear from CHL/LEO on that part.

Chas.

[Doug.38PR]

Just a few thoughts on my end for whatever they are worth. (and I admit I wasn't there and don't know all the details of the original poster's story)

1) I COULD understand him getting out of the truck
a. He was in the passing lane on Hwy 6 at night and came to a abrupt halt. He may not be able to drive away or back up as other cars may be behind him blocking him in...or worse coming towards him at 60 mph in a passing lane.
b. The "Friend" may have been unsure about the situation. He might have thought, initially, that the man in the truck in front of him wanted to ask him about something the other truck was doing or if something had happened and was getting out at first to see what the guy wanted.

2) I COULD understand him pulling his gun. It is at night and difficult to see. For some reason or another the "friend" may have felt this guy was making threatening moves. He possessed a possible weapon in his hand (and as already said, at night abruptly stopping during a aggrevated road incident it's very possible it is a weapon). As such, I could understand how he would reasonably feel his life were in immediate danger.

3) In a way, to the "friend's" credit, he warned the guy off and didn't panic and fire.

4) YES, he SHOULD have called the police. I have heard muliple stories of men pulling their guns to ward off a clear case of deadly assault, assuming all is well when attacker retreats and winding up facing the police and a judge (one such case, according to my CHL instructor, ended up with the CHL holder never being legally allowed to be within so many feet of a gun for the rest of his life). CALL THE POLICE and have your side of the story documented before anybody else does.


None of this is to say that your "friend" necessarily did everthing or even anything right. I'm just giving him (the friend) the benifit of the doubt.

[aardwolf]

He should have kept driving.

Since he didn't, he should have called 911 and gave them the guys plate number.

[Dragonfighter]

Given the scenario as described I can only recall the sage advice of my CHL instructor, "If you draw, ready or LOOK at your weapon in a confrontation; be the first to call 911." Me thinks he was right.

[WildBill]

So Charles, what happens if this guy goes on without reporting the incident to police? How long can a witness or the driver (who was drawn upon) wait to say something? I guess I'm just thinking that it sounds like this guy might be simply trying to lay low and hope no one says anything? Could this come back to bite him?
I find these legal discussions--even if based mostly in speculation--to be quite interesting.

That's a good question; I wish I had an equally good answer, but I don't. It's too late to "call immediately" and the justification isn't that clear to me, but again, there could be more to this event. Even if there is, I'm not sure how reporting it this long after the incident would be viewed by law enforcement. I'd like to hear from CHL/LEO on that part. Chas.

If "Friend" wasn't justified drawing his gun in the first place, should he make the call?

[stevie_d_64]

Sure is friendly in here...My friends...

The only substantive thing I can add to this is I would not have gotten out of my vehicle to take a position on anything with my weapon drawn...Thats a precipice I am not going to approach based upon the information given and putting myself into that situation...

My vehicle makes for a much better defensive weapon in this case...And a little more cover while I am locked inside it...

[mctowalot]

IMO it would be prudent to call. I can tell you from my experience (in Houston anyway), anybody can make a call/complaint and include your lic. plate. Then, if LEO runs your plate, it will come back with a "red flag". It might be generic, ie: the dispatcher (or computer) simply informs the officer that your vehicle was reported as "suspicious". This would in turn make you "suspicious" (suspicion of be suspicious ).
I think it would be best to make your own call and get the record straight.

[WildBill]

IMO it would be prudent to call. I can tell you from my experience (in Houston anyway), anybody can make a call/complaint and include your lic. plate. Then, if LEO runs your plate, it will come back with a "red flag". It might be generic, ie: the dispatcher (or computer) simply informs the officer that your vehicle was reported as "suspicious". This would in turn make you "suspicious" (suspicion of be suspicious ).
I think it would be best to make your own call and get the record straight.

Very good point, my Friend.

[boomerang]

My vehicle makes for a much better defensive weapon in this case...And a little more cover while I am locked inside it...

It makes a pretty good offensive weapon if your attacker is on foot.

[NcongruNt]

Sure is friendly in here...My friends...

The only substantive thing I can add to this is I would not have gotten out of my vehicle to take a position on anything with my weapon drawn...Thats a precipice I am not going to approach based upon the information given and putting myself into that situation...

My vehicle makes for a much better defensive weapon in this case...And a little more concealment while I am locked inside it...

There, fixed it.