To NFA or not to NFA, that is the question

[teraph]

All,

I am finally at a point where I should be able to file some Form 1s this spring/summer, and would like y'alls input. Is it worth it to do the paperwork for a couple of SBRs and a suppressor or two right now?

Thanks!
Teraph

[SigM4]

The best time to file Form 1/4s is yesterday, second best is today. Haha

Ok, that said yes, getting into the world of NFA firearms is always fun. If you have the ability to do so I’d say do it. The key is to file and forget about it. Once it’s approved you’ll get a random call to come pick up your new toy.

What are you thinking about specifically?

[teraph]

SigM4,

Fair point on yesterday/today. I was thinking about SBRing a couple of lowers (one of which is the new KP15), and form 1ing a suppressor. Outside of that, I kind of want to buy a Sandman S.

Teraph

[SigM4]

Outside of that, I kind of want to buy a Sandman S.

Teraph

Do it! That’s my most recent rifle can and it’s awesome.

As for Form 1ing a couple cans I’d note that pistol and rimfire cans are more suited to this as the pressure involved is significantly less. Also, rimfire is so easy to suppress. Not that you can’t do it with center-fire rifle (several members here have) but the R&D that goes into commercial cans lends itself to more rugged and better performing rifle cans.

As an aside, be careful Form 1ing lowers, one becomes two and before you know it you barely even own a non-NFA rifle. Ask me how I know...

[jb2012]

Absolutely it’s a good time. I would like to urge you not to build a can on a form 1 unless you really want to put some time into it, and not get the same performance as a form 4 factory built can. Several members here have built form 1 cans, and it seems like it’s always challenging to get them really running right. I also lurk on r/NFA quite a bit, and seems like the same story there as well. Definitely go for it, and be careful, it’s addicting.

[Paladin]

When the SBA3 & 4 exist, it's hard for me to justify going to the time, expense, and overhead of an SBR. That said having a real stock is the best.

My quietbore .22 and .45 silencers work great. They've gotten a lot of use. The Form 1's were many times quicker than a Form 4. Drilling aluminum is an easy project you can do at home. Drilling steel is a bit tougher, but if you've got a drill press its no big deal. There are adaptors to run .45 silencers on 9mm.

Some people like getting a .30 cal rifle and .45 cal pistol silencer... that you can run on most guns with the proper adaptors. Honestly I get the most mileage out of my .22 silencer. A .22 silencer is small, lightweight, and really does make a pistol or rifle a lot quieter.

Accuracy can be an issue for silencers. Silencers really help amateurs who are fighting recoil anticipation... but can sometimes be frustrating for pros who feel the effects of the inevitable point of impact shift and are used to putting holes through holes. I also do a lot more cleaning (both the silencers and the guns)

[Beiruty]

I waited more than 13 yrs to file for my first e-form1 and ordered my first can.
I got a nice 9mmAR built on Jack9 lower with 16" barrel for PCC competition.
I shot my friend's 22LR dedicated AR with short barrel with a can and a giggle switch. So, I decided to go this route.

I added a 5" 9mm AR upper. Then, I completed my NFA trust. I filed my e-form1 and I was billed for the 200 stamp the second day. I ordered a Gemtech Lunar 45 (modular and can be dissembled for cleaning) from my FFL dealer (Silencer Shop dealer). I still have to upload my fingertips done at the dealer Kiosk.

[kayt00]

I'm getting ready to file a Form 1 for an SBR. For the CLEO notification on my form 4 (recent suppressor purchase) I noticed that the CLEO notification was going to Texas Department of Public Safety, Steven McCraw (director). Can the same be done on my Form 1?

[srothstein]

For anyone thinking of going NFA, remember that it is a registry that tells them exactly where your firearm/silencer is. And one of the Democrat representatives was in the news yesterday introducing a bill to ban all silencers in the US. I don't think that will fly this time, but it is a warning shot we should heed.

You may be forced to go NFA at some point, but I don't think a pistol brace becoming an SBR by fiat would stand up in court. That is just my call though.

[kayt00]

For anyone thinking of going NFA, remember that it is a registry that tells them exactly where your firearm/silencer is. And one of the Democrat representatives was in the news yesterday introducing a bill to ban all silencers in the US. I don't think that will fly this time, but it is a warning shot we should heed.

You may be forced to go NFA at some point, but I don't think a pistol brace becoming an SBR by fiat would stand up in court. That is just my call though.

Yup, I've battled those very same thoughts. The thing is, there are things that I want to do with my pistol that I can't do unless I SBR it. Everything that you add to it seems to be in a grey zone and I can dig up $200 easier than i can potentially tens of thousands to battle things out in court.

[MaduroBU]

I don't understand the desire to SBR a 5.56 AR-15. The 5.56 is designed to kill with velocity, and develops markedly better ballistics with a 75-77 grain bullet at 2800-2900 FPS; that implies an 18-20" barrel. The AR-15 itself is a poor semi-auto design, not because it is globally bad, but because it trades so much away to remain controllable in full-auto. The linear action with the piston integrated within the bolt with an inline recoil buffer is exceptional, and the videos of people shooting full-auto 5.56 AR-15s with Jim Sullivan's Surefire OBC one-handed shows what the design is actually capable of.

The cost is a filthy rifle with the spring necessarily sticking straight out the back of the gun. That's a great trade if it means that you can put nearly all of the moving mass directly in line with the shooter's shoulder rather than above it, but it's very hard to take advantage of that unless you have a 3 hole receiver. In stark contrast, the AR-18 is Stoner's most popular design; the three families of service rifles that exist today are AK pattern, AR-10 pattern, and AR-18 pattern. There is a line of thought that the AR-18 was a failure, which is one of those statements that is kind of true, but only at a superficial level. The BAR was a poor light machine gun and never worked as well as its peers at its intended roles. However, the Browning's design was exceptional, and after FN was free to ignore the Army's poorly thought out requirements, they turned the BAR into the best general purpose machine gun in the world (the FN MAG/M240) and the Army's current GPMG. Not bad for a 102 year old gun. The AR-18 had a huge number of issues, mostly stemming from poor quality and a lack of buyers in the 1970s. But the fundamental idea was solid, which is why nations that develop their own service rifles use the AR-18 as as a basis over the AR-10 pattern. The UK, Japan, Germany and Singapore all developed AR-18 variants which they field today.

That's a lot of history: why? The AR-18 allows for a bullpup without the giant reciprocating mass of an AK long stroke piston. The Tavor is a tank, but it is also the antithesis of what Stoner was trying to achieve with the AR-10 in terms of keeping recoil linear with the shooter's shoulder. The short stroke piston of the AR-18 system has a relatively tiny amount of mass moving a short distance outside of the bore axis in line with the shooter's shoulder, and does not require that the recoil spring be located directly behind the bolt. If your goals are to get a powerful rifle within the shortest overall length possible, then a bullpup based on the AR-18 is very hard to beat.

To me, a gun is a barrel, a breech, a cartridge, and some means of controlling when the cartridge fires and where it goes when it does so; if part of a gun doesn't somehow add to that, it's in the same category as a balloon animal taped to the barrel. I own firearms with fixed butt stocks, but those are specific circumstances where the added benefit (aiming for a precision rifle or pointing for a shotgun) outweighs the extra length. In a full-auto AR-15, the buffer tube gives ful-auto controllability in return for longer overall length for a given barrel length. In a semi-auto AR-15, is the buffer tube giving you something in return for the length that you're adding/the barrel that you're removing to hit a length target? I can't answer that for you, but my M17S with an 18" barrel AND a Gemtech ONE is the same length as an AR-15 with no muzzle device and an 11.5" barrel (30.5" OAL).

[kayt00]

I'm not sure what what OP is SBRing, but I'm doing it with 300 black.

[Excaliber]

The left is on it.

Faster than you can say "unconstitutional", banning sale and possession of suppressors is already in the works by democrats.

Details here.

[flechero]

Someone need to play an actual recording at correct decibels of the downrange side of a suppressed .308 rifle in the house chamber during a session.... and then tell them, this is a"silencer." I suspect when their ears quit ringing, a few dems will see the silliness and vote with R's.

[kayt00]

Someone need to play an actual recording at correct decibels of the downrange side of a suppressed .308 rifle in the house chamber during a session.... and then tell them, this is a"silencer." I suspect when their ears quit ringing, a few dems will see the silliness and vote with R's.

I agree...

But in the meantime I got my Form 1 filled today. Evidently I hosed it a bit with my caliber selection because I put 7.62 and mm for 300 blackout. Technically that's correct but it's now being researched and I don't have a cover letter yet to send to the Sheriff's office.