Air Pistols and Rifles

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

Moderator: carlson1


Topic author
Dannyboy
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:26 am

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#16

Post by Dannyboy »

nedmoore wrote:I am surprised that anyone here on the forum took the time to respond to this question. Really? Open carry with a pellet gun? :banghead:

What a waste of time and bandwidth.

You have a lousy, negative attitude for sure.

You know nothing about me or my circumstances, and why I or anyone else may have merit for asking a question about any kind of firearm. For all you know, it maybe a very serious set of circumstances, and it might be to satisfy the questions from, and educate a 12 year old child.

I posted these questions in the "General" discussion section, because that's what this is about. Maybe someday you'll be able to see outside yourself.

Thanks so much to the many who took time to elaborate and/or answer the questions. My 12 year old nephew is a curious fellow!!!

Topic author
Dannyboy
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:26 am

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#17

Post by Dannyboy »

WildBill wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.
It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.
Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.

Topic author
Dannyboy
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:26 am

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#18

Post by Dannyboy »

Jusme wrote:
nedmoore wrote:I am surprised that anyone here on the forum took the time to respond to this question. Really? Open carry with a pellet gun? :banghead:

What a waste of time and bandwidth.

I've always said, there are no stupid questions, only stupid mistakes. The OP asked a question for which he wanted honest answers, No one was forced to respond, and I don't think anyone was disrespectful in their replies, If the OP didn't respect the views and opinions of the forum members he could have asked others not as experienced and gotten very bad advice. I will never rebuke someone for asking questions, no matter how common sense the answer may seem to me. There is a lot of bad advice and mis-information floating around out there that can and has gotten people hurt and/or killed, If I can express my opinion and possibly stem that tide, the bandwidth is not wasted.JMHO
Thanks Jusme.
User avatar

Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#19

Post by Oldgringo »

The various laws and their interpretation notwithstanding, many of today's pellet guns are crafted to mirror their powder burning namesakes. I would not carry one of those imitators around openly for fear of drawing unwanted attention from several directions and perhaps some wise guy's real bullets. I agree with what 'some' others have previously said, it ain't a real good idea. YMMV?

Yes, I do CC.
User avatar

Middle Age Russ
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Spring-Woodlands

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#20

Post by Middle Age Russ »

At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.
Dannyboy, please consider the following. I have about 45 years of experience with various airguns and firearms, including many pistols in the performance envelope you describe and terminal performance against a wide variety of targets. Though .177 or even .22 caliber pellets (each heavier and carrying more energy than .177 BBs) at a nominal 400 fps can "take an eye out", penetrate some clothing, etc..., the deterrence factor against a human being is simply not significant. If your target interloper is inclined to leave before you shoot them, they well may leave when you do -- or shooting them may commit them to a different course of action like STOPPING YOU. If they are not already inclined to leave, your escalation is quite likely to be met with an attack. "Severe pain" is NOT to be confused with significant injury that can stop an attack -- and the latter inflicted with an air pistol such as you describe is incredibly improbable to the point of being practically impossible. The effects produced by such an air pistol are NOT likely to end a truly bad situation, let alone be "more than enough".

What you choose to do is, of course, your business, but my recommendation would never include employing an air pistol against another person unless it was airsoft or paintball in a force-on-force exercise/game. Best of luck.
Russ
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
NRA Life Member, CRSO, Basic Pistol, PPITH & PPOTH Instructor, Texas 4-H Certified Pistol & Rifle Coach, Texas LTC Instructor
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#21

Post by WildBill »

Dannyboy wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.
It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.
Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.
By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".
NRA Endowment Member
User avatar

lfinsr
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#22

Post by lfinsr »

Dannyboy wrote: It's my understanding I can shoot someone who is trespassing with intent to steal.
Something everyone seems to have skipped over...

Aside from the wisdom of carrying a "pellet gun," there is no law saying you can shoot someone. Use of deadly force under very specific circumstances is a defense to prosecution, nothing more, nothing less. No offense intended, I would humbly suggest you read the LTC laws, then read them again and again... I've been reading them for over 15 years and I still learn something regularly. :rules:

Larry
My guns won't be illegal, they'll be undocumented. :thumbs2:
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#23

Post by WildBill »

lfinsr wrote:
Dannyboy wrote: It's my understanding I can shoot someone who is trespassing with intent to steal.
Something everyone seems to have skipped over...

Aside from the wisdom of carrying a "pellet gun," there is no law saying you can shoot someone. Use of deadly force under very specific circumstances is a defense to prosecution, nothing more, nothing less. No offense intended, I would humbly suggest you read the LTC laws, then read them again and again... I've been reading them for over 15 years and I still learn something regularly. :rules:

Larry
I agree that you can not shoot someone who is trespassing with intent to steal.
That is why I suggested the OP take an LTC class to learn the applicable laws concerning the use of deadly force. :tiphat:
NRA Endowment Member

nedmoore
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#24

Post by nedmoore »

Sorry if you were offended Dannyboy, Good luck with air guns….
User avatar

oljames3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5350
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:21 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#25

Post by oljames3 »

Jusme wrote: I've always said, there are no stupid questions, only stupid mistakes. The OP asked a question for which he wanted honest answers, No one was forced to respond, and I don't think anyone was disrespectful in their replies, If the OP didn't respect the views and opinions of the forum members he could have asked others not as experienced and gotten very bad advice. I will never rebuke someone for asking questions, no matter how common sense the answer may seem to me. There is a lot of bad advice and mis-information floating around out there that can and has gotten people hurt and/or killed, If I can express my opinion and possibly stem that tide, the bandwidth is not wasted.JMHO
:iagree:
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA, NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Instructor, Rangemaster Certified, GOA, TSRA, NAR L1
User avatar

Pariah3j
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:03 pm
Location: Webster

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#26

Post by Pariah3j »

WildBill wrote:
Dannyboy wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.
It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.
Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.
By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".
WildBill I must concede to your wisdom once again. Had not considered the eyeball angle. I would still hope some common sense could be applied and something like a standard pellet pistol would fall under less than lethal, but the law as written I suspect could and would be used to make the 'deadly weapon' case.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#27

Post by WildBill »

Pariah3j wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Dannyboy wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.
It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.
Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.
By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".
WildBill I must concede to your wisdom once again. Had not considered the eyeball angle. I would still hope some common sense could be applied and something like a standard pellet pistol would fall under less than lethal, but the law as written I suspect could and would be used to make the 'deadly weapon' case.
Thank you Parian3j for the compliment. :tiphat:
In most cases the defendant would probably be offered a plea bargain down to a lesser assault offense.
NRA Endowment Member

jkurtz
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:12 pm

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#28

Post by jkurtz »

WildBill wrote:
Dannyboy wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.
It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.
Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.
By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".
Just to play devil's advocate, established non-lethal devices (tasers, bean bag rounds, batons, OC, etc.) are also capable of inflicting serious bodily injury and death.
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#29

Post by WildBill »

jkurtz wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Dannyboy wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Pariah3j wrote:I'm not sure using a airsoft/co2 pistol would rise to the level of deadly force. It would be more the category of less than lethal, more like a paintball marker or similar type of instrument.

Given that imho, that it doesn't rise to the level of being a firearm, I don't think you would need a permit to carry one. However I think as suggested before me, that would be ill advised and foolish due to the number of reasons that could go wrong.
It could. An air pistol could be considered a deadly weapon.
Texas Penal Code Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS.
17) "Deadly weapon" means:
(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or
(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
At 400 FPS, these 177 caliber steel BBs can easily take out an eyeball. It can easily penetrate basic clothing, and be lodged deep enough to cause some problems. It can easily deter someone from coming toward you. Just hope they don't have something more powerful. If nothing else, it will inflict severe pain, which is quite often more than enough to end a bad situation.
By definition, taking out someones eyeball is "serious bodily injury".
Just to play devil's advocate, established non-lethal devices (tasers, bean bag rounds, batons, OC, etc.) are also capable of inflicting serious bodily injury and death.
Of course they are capable and a person using them to assault another person could be charged with aggravated assault.
NRA Endowment Member

Topic author
Dannyboy
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:26 am

Re: Air Pistols and Rifles

#30

Post by Dannyboy »

I took time to look around online. There are actually quite a few stories about people being killed by air gun. Also, now there is a 50 caliber air gun available, which is quite popular in deer hunting.

http://www.topairgun.com/50-cal-air-rifles

Also, there are many stories out there about burglars, and potential assaults being neutralized with the use of powerful air guns.

I don't plan on counting on one to defend my home, or the people and things that make life meaningful. But don't underestimate what an air gun can do. This isn't the 60s and 70s Daisy and Crossman days anymore. Companies are making air guns that will easily bring down a deer.
Post Reply

Return to “General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion”