Will You OC Using A Non-Retention Holster?

[LSUTiger]

I ordered a Safariland 7TS ALS holster for my G17. If it doesn't come in on time for Jan. 1 then I will use what I have until then, which is a IWB Compac-MTAC for my G19 and carry exposed.

[Abraham]

At this late date, the amount of misinformation regarding retention/non-retention holsters for OC is surprising.

[LikWid]

At this late date, the amount of misinformation regarding retention/non-retention holsters for OC is surprising.

Maybe a mod can put together a "FAQ" prompt for the site. Pops up when someone signs in, one time, then goes away.

[SA_Steve]

It's mentioned in the law as a requirement for the CHL class trainer to mention them.
Folks read too much in that part of the law change.

[LikWid]

People are just asking to get reassurance, on something they're not 100% positive about. Could have sworn that's what this forum was for.

[The Wall]

Didn't carry without retention holster before OP, and won't after.

[mojo84]

Didn't carry before OP, and won't after.

Why do you not carry?

[DEB]

People are just asking to get reassurance, on something they're not 100% positive about. Could have sworn that's what this forum was for.

[The Annoyed Man]

At this late date, the amount of misinformation regarding retention/non-retention holsters for OC is surprising.

To me, it is not surprising given the absence of real direction in the language of the law.

As written:

• the law does not define 'retention'
• the law only creates a requirement that instructors cover the topic (but there seems to be limited or no guidance on how to cover it)
• the law creates a requirement that the handgun be carried in a belt or shoulder holster
• the law does not describe a 'retention' shoulder or belt holster

Because the law does not define retention, and does not require the use of a retention holster as we, the CHL community would understand a retention holster to be defined, we are left to our own decvices to to decide:

1. what constitutes 'retention'
2. what level of retention, if any, to adhere to
3. whether or not it is a good idea
4. whether or not we will individually use retention holsters
5. what degree of retention we will individually strive for

It seems, based on the legislative debates during during passage of the bill, which many of us listened to and watched on live streaming video at the time, that the primary concern of legislators who argued for a retention requirement was that someone open carrying might have their gun snatched out of their holster by another party with evil intent, and that a requirement for a retention holster would alleviate their concerns. The argument against this was that the majority did not want to pass a law that would require everyone to run out and buy new holsters, as an unnecessary added financial burden on license holders. The compromise was to include language which suggested [a] that the overall subject of retention be covered in the class, and that created a requirement to carry the gun in a belt or shoulder holster.

If one retains a retrospective in one's mind of the sausage-making process involved in the passage of this particular law, it becomes clear that the majority intended two things to be understood by license holders. One is that the idea of retention ought to be considered by the license holder in his/her choice of holster purchasing decisions, and the other is that the gun is to be carried in a belt or shoulder holster. Common sense dictates that the legislative intent was for the belt holster to be carried on the belt, and the shoulder holster on the shoulder, but there are always those who look for ways to get around the fairly obvious legislative intent by asking questions like, "can I leave my pistol in plain view on my car's passenger seat, as long as it is in a belt holster".

Wherever there is lack of definition in the law, there is room made for disinformation. However, philosophically, I prefer that the law permit the most libertarian interpretation possible while still fulfilling the legislative intent. In that light, it seems to make perfect sense to me that legislative intent is for a gun to be carried in a belt holster on the belt or a shoulder holster on the shoulder, and that the license holder give sober thought to retention in their choice of holster.

This is what sober thought looks like to me: a well-made and properly-designed holster incorporates a minimum level of retention in its execution. What is a "minimum" level of retention? To me, it means that your gun is not likely to fall out of your holster under fairly vigorous movement, including movement in which the gun/holster might be momentarily oriented in an upside down position, while still worn on the body........such as in tripping/stumbling and falling. This can happen, despite one's situational awareness. As far as retention from the grasp of a thief, that is a choice that everyone has to make for themselves. I continue to maintain that one's best defense against that is one's level of situational awareness. If, despite one's best efforts to be aware of what is going on around them, an assailant gets close enough to make a play for your gun, there is ultimately NO level of retention that will prevent his success if one is overpowered before being able to bring the gun into play in self-defense. Therefore, the highest level of retention happens between the ears, and consists of [a] avoiding situations of elevated risk, and maintaining situational awareness in all situations.

If, after having taken into account a well-made properly-designed holster, and having taken into account the discipline of situational awareness, then if adding additional layers of retention to your holster make you feel better, by all means do so. But don't rely on a high level of retention in a poorly made and designed holster as a substitute for being aware of your surroundings and what is going on around you.

[The Annoyed Man]

Didn't carry before OP, and won't after.

Why do you not carry?

I'm thinking this is a typo, and that he meant to type "Didn't use a retention holster before OC, and won't after."

[rotor]

Question for the group. With so much concern about retention can one have "retention" with just a clip on your belt holster? Seems that your gun with holster can be removed. Do most retention holsters actually have your belt going through a cutout in the holster vs belt clips? Obviously the guy who wants to carry his belt holster without a belt is not going to have much "retention".

[anygunanywhere]

Question for the group. With so much concern about retention can one have "retention" with just a clip on your belt holster? Seems that your gun with holster can be removed. Do most retention holsters actually have your belt going through a cutout in the holster vs belt clips? Obviously the guy who wants to carry his belt holster without a belt is not going to have much "retention".

I have several paddle holsters that take such a firm bite on the inside of my pants I have trouble taking them off.

[LikWid]

Question for the group. With so much concern about retention can one have "retention" with just a clip on your belt holster? Seems that your gun with holster can be removed. Do most retention holsters actually have your belt going through a cutout in the holster vs belt clips? Obviously the guy who wants to carry his belt holster without a belt is not going to have much "retention".

I have a paddle holster, sits inside your pants. It's hell for ME to take out the holster sometimes, and as far as pulling my weapon, you have to learn how to pull it. With someone just yanking on it, the gun does not come out. Also, like mentioned earlier, my fobus has adjustable retention.

[RHenriksen]

I wish I knew what make/model of paddle holster in this video:

[oljames3]

Question for the group. With so much concern about retention can one have "retention" with just a clip on your belt holster? Seems that your gun with holster can be removed. Do most retention holsters actually have your belt going through a cutout in the holster vs belt clips? Obviously the guy who wants to carry his belt holster without a belt is not going to have much "retention".

I have several paddle holsters that take such a firm bite on the inside of my pants I have trouble taking them off.

Both my Fobus and my Uncle Mike's paddle holsters require manipulation of the belt and/or wasitband for removal of the holster. The Fobus came with my Tanfoglio BTA90. I'll be using the Uncle Mike's paddle holster with thumb break for open carry.

I've done my risk analysis. My main concern is keeping the pistol in place as I recover my sport rockets. Crossing fences, ditches, rough terrain, etc.