Instructor recertification class

[jmorris]

If you want a seat at a table be here at least 15 minutes before the registration time. Looks like a third are scattered in seats around the edge. They're still dragging out more chairs. Photo to follow.

And the screens are two small ones at the front, but you get a copy of the slides.

Evidently some instructor courses have been done here?

Plan on posting my notes here unless mods see a problem.

[jmorris]

LTC online class - nobody knows nothing. New forms -101, -9

Quite a few LTC 100 - Wrong Dr #, lacking signatures, provide some sort of range address.

Instructor! Do not mail or submit LTC-100 for student.

LTC forms Digital signature fine.

Instructor copy of LTC 100 doesn't require student signature.

On line training would allow out-of-state student to take course, then only come to TX for shooting, unless military. The just submit supporting docs.

Just had a big case of forgeries where they had to compare signatures between -8s and -100s. Insure signatures are same across forms.

Case where instructor had printed loads of digitally signed LTC- 100s which were stolen during a break in and submitted.

Cannot use state seal of Texas or agency name for any reason EXCEPT saying "certified by DPS".

Videos cannot be used in place of instruction, must be relevant to material, and instructor must be present.

No non-certified guest speaker unless that time is NOT included in 4-6 hour requirement. Includes LEO.

Class can be split by range time.

Questions about online keep popping up.  No answers. The rules will have to be written, submitted to Public Safety Commision, public comment,  back to PSC.... Maybe 2018

Online providers servers must be in Texas so they can be audited by DPS.

Current list of instructors on DPS website will be deleted.  Hoping to get interactive map online so user can click county and see instructor. Form handed out in class to get on new list.  Insure you have your instructor #.

Just because you got the email saying they got your -8 doesn't mean they got your -8.  There's a glitch. May apply to -100s, tell students if they see no status change in couple of weeks (month!) call.  Only way to check receipt of -8 is to call.

The LTC expert who used to answer phone has moved, couple people designated but learning.  Don't call on Monday. Open at 7am.  Stop taking calls at 6:45 but do handle all calls in queue.

No plans to replace current test.

As of 9/1 Corrections officers, cpcj, have to take course but not proficiency.   Must submit their agency form.

Getting fingerprinted for each type of application is a FBI requirement.

Don't call for students, cannot give out information.

State mail does not get forwarded.

Start app, take class, submit -100, little as 5 days to get license if clean.

Part 2 - Senior Trooper Goodman - involved in setting up CHL program.

(I'm just reporting, argue when you get here. Lots of use of interpretation, possibly, probably.)

Interpretation - basically anyone in the business has "apparent authority" 06/07

Can't give oral to some and not others.  Everyone treated same.

Drop leg holster is still not valid for open carry.

Question asked CHL badge good idea.  No opinion, just don't pretend to be LEO.

LOTS of talk (confusion?) on PC46.035.  He said (i) locations were still prohibited, with or without signs.  Please ask again when you go, maybe I just totally misunderstood.

Rest is safe storage and holsters and I'm running out of battery.

[jmorris]

Evidently a few people were confused. When I went to ask him afterwards there were at least 6 or 7 asking.

Yes, those places must be posted to be prohibited for LTC. (As we knew.) Some examples he used were confusing. During safe storage, a contractor whose allowed to carry gets a call to go on a service call at a hospital, what's he going to do with his firearm? He didn't say, a posted hospital, but implied he wouldn't be able to carry.

[troglodyte]

I don't like being critical and I was hoping the four hour class would be worth the drive.

1 hour worth of material stretched over 4 hours.

JMorris summed it up pretty well. RSD is having problems with the submission of documents, know their phone system is poor, and generally understand our frustrations. From the tone of Mr Allen I think he is just as frustrated and wished he could tell us more.

You do have to turn in an LTC-8 for the instructor you recertify.

Sr. Trooper Pittman was tasked with explaining all the changes that we've already been teaching so it was a lot of reading through the slides very quickly. His short stories broke up the monotony.

During the RSD portion they passed around the mic so everyone could hear the questions as they were asked. That didn't happen during Sr. Trooper Pittman portion so I think that may have added to the confusion.

They are expecting a glut of applications at the beginning of Sept. so be expecting longer issuance times.

I know we have to meet every other renewal but this could have easily been done as a webinar or just a good memo. It was a long ways to drive to burn a vacation day.

I was curiously surprised at how many instructors appeared not to be carrying. I understand I certainly may not have been able to see it but there were a number of folks that I couldn't pick out where they were carrying. Either they were very good at concealment or they weren't carrying. I was also surprised at how few open carry I saw. I figured this would have been the perfect place for even the most hesitant to try open carry. I can't say much, I stayed concealed.

Get there early if you want a table seat. I was in the line about 7:15 and still I sat along the back wall towards the middle. It was fine. I don't know how well the folks in the back corners could see or hear.

ETA: I do appreciate all the folks com RSD and Sr. Trooper Pittman for their time. As always they were professional, pleasant, and courteous. They worked with what they were given and sometimes that wasn't much. My thanks to them.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Did the test involve scoring a target? That was funny last in-person renewal when we couldn't mark the holes.

Are the new forms for School safety classess? (101 & 9)

Chas.

[infoman]

The LTC-101 is strictly for students who will take the classroom portion of the LTC course online. (not in use prob until 2018). The LTC-9 is the form used for this instead of the LTC-8

[jmorris]

Did the test involve scoring a target? That was funny last in-person renewal when we couldn't mark the holes.

Are the new forms for School safety classess? (101 & 9)

Chas.

Hmmm, wasn't a test unless I missed it. Like infoman said, the new forms are for online. The student shows up with the class portion of LTC-101filled out, then you attest to them fulfilling the range portion, then you submit the LTC-9.

In addition to the forgeries there are evidently a couple other investigations going on instructors.

And I think the Senior Troopers name is Pittman, not Goodman.

[PBratton]

Do yell at me too loudly, but is carry allowed in class?

[Crossfire]

Did the test involve scoring a target? That was funny last in-person renewal when we couldn't mark the holes.

Are the new forms for School safety classess? (101 & 9)

Chas.

There was no test, and no scoring of targets. Which is a good thing, since it is obvious DPS can't count.
240 seats in the class. My best estimate is at least 300 attendees.

[KC5AV]

Do yell at me too loudly, but is carry allowed in class?

Location is not posted. Carry away. Trooper Pittman said something about the number of guns in class.

There was nothing really touched on in the morning session that we haven't covered here (just another indication of how valuable this resource is. Thx Charles).

There was quite a lot of discussion on 46.035, and whether churches, hospitals, and nursing homes are off limits whether posted or not. Maybe next session, we can get a carve out to provide online re-certification for instructors.

[infoman]

I wish every instructor was on this forum. Great source for information on here.

[troglodyte]

There was quite a lot of discussion on 46.035, and whether churches, hospitals, and nursing homes are off limits whether posted or not. Maybe next session, we can get a carve out to provide online re-certification for instructors.

Apparently the 46.035 confusion was cleared up after class. I hope the RSD sends out that clarification. I'm afraid that there were individuals that went away with the wrong info.

[Liberty]

There was nothing really touched on in the morning session that we haven't covered here (just another indication of how valuable this resource is. Thx Charles).

There was quite a lot of discussion on 46.035, and whether churches, hospitals, and nursing homes are off limits whether posted or not. Maybe next session, we can get a carve out to provide online re-certification for instructors.

I find it a little disturbing that there is still confusion about all of this. The law is pretty clear. Could it be that DPS thinks something we have been doing for years is illegal?

[jmorris]

There was nothing really touched on in the morning session that we haven't covered here (just another indication of how valuable this resource is. Thx Charles).

There was quite a lot of discussion on 46.035, and whether churches, hospitals, and nursing homes are off limits whether posted or not. Maybe next session, we can get a carve out to provide online re-certification for instructors.

I find it a little disturbing that there is still confusion about all of this. The law is pretty clear. Could it be that DPS thinks something we have been doing for years is illegal?

Now that I've had time to ponder on this I think the problem was that there is a title slide that says "Penal Code 46.035 Unlawful Carrying of a Handgun by License Holder" but all the section's slides (unless I'm missing some) are about 06/07 & 51%. Then there's a title slide for 46.03(a) followed by 46.03(a) verbiage. I just discovered in my copy that title slide is used twice, again following the 46.03(a) section. The second time it's followed by campus carry, open carry, and holster information. Nowhere is the verbiage of 46.035 listed. I'm thinking now that we were confused about what was being covered, although a couple examples used seem to support our thought that he was saying "prohibited anyway".

[jmorris]

Don't know why I didn't have this in my notes but it also seemed that ST Pittman stated that no exemption for school employees having firearms in their vehicles in the school parking lot had passed. As I understand it, there was an amendment to SB 1566 authorizing the transportation and storage of a handgun or other firearm and ammunition by a license holder in a motor vehicle in a parking area of a primary or secondary school.

So, I either misunderstood ST Pittman or misunderstanding the amendment.