My First 4 Hour Class

[Charles L. Cotton]

I've done one 4hr class and the next one is coming up on Oct. 5th. After the first one, I created a new PowerPoint presentation from scratch using the DPS outline as a guide. Based upon the times DPS wants for each Module and the greater detail of what DPS wants covered, it's more than just a new PowerPoint presentation, it's an entirely different class. In fact, it bears little resemblance to my previous classes, including 4 hr. renewal classes.

I'll admit that when I first saw the outline and times, I wasn't too happy. It was obvious that I would have to change the character of the class and what students have enjoyed so much over the years was to be a thing of the past. Most of the "real world" discussion on the use of force/deadly force will no longer be part of the class simply because there won't be enough time. This is the part I regret the most. In my opinion, the only subjects that should be statutorily required are 1) use of force/deadly force; and 2) where we can't carry handguns. (Maybe next session? ) I will still offer my Texas Self-Defense & Deadly Force Laws Seminar, perhaps even more often than in prior years. That way I can cover the topic in even greater detail than in my "old" CHL classes.

In spite of my early misgivings, I have to admit that I think my new course is better overall for the majority of new students. It covers more material much of which is especially important for people who have little or no handgun experience. Highly experienced folks will probably find it a bit elementary, but that does not diminish the value to the majority of CHL students who are not active shooters and/or who do not study Texas laws and self-defense tactics.

I have been a firearms instructor in some capacity for over 40 years. I've been a public speaker for over 25 years and have taught countless classes and seminars on various subjects. Performing for and entertaining juries (a key to being successful in trial) for years has given me an appreciation for the value of flexibility and the ability to adapt to your audience. For this reason, I appreciated the tremendous freedom we CHL instructors have enjoyed in prior years. As long as I covered the statutorily-required subjects and met the time requirements, I could do pretty much anything I wanted and the students loved it. The classes were not merely informative, they were also entertaining and we had a great time. That said, most CHL instructors are not old farts with many decades of shooting and teaching experience. The greater subject matter detail now provided by DPS will aid many instructors, especially newer ones, in creating lesson plans and PowerPoint presentations, while also providing for more overall consistency in CHL training throughout the State. Like most folks, especially those of us with more miles on the odometer, I don't like change, but I have to admit that DPS has done a very good job with the "new" CHL course. I will still make my classes entertaining, thus keeping my students' interest and attention, but it will be in a more structured environment.

Chas.

[longtooth]

Charles
The test is better. The Nonviolent Dispute resolution is better. I also miss the Old Time frame on Use of force/deadly force.

Overall. Except for the change business.

[switch]

She also said we need to shoot w/both revolver and SA because we needed to know the difference. :( How much difference is there between SA? Compare that w/the difference between NSA and SA. :) I wonder how much she knows about guns.

[1stpalindrone]

Well, it seems like the 4-6 hour class should've been a 5-6 hour class...

I just spoke to my father who is in Georgetown taking his instructor class. He called me while on break as I was reading this topic. He stated Sherrie just told them they must teach at least the class guideline times. If they go over the allotted time it is ok although they cannot teach less than those "Suggested" times. I asked him to verify with her again when he goes in from the break.

I have a class this coming Sunday and will be letting him get his feet wet being his first go round at teaching. Im curious as well as anxious to see what new info he'll bring to our pre class meeting...

I'll keep yall posted.. NVDR

Lucas

[bizarrenormality]

If he goes over the time limit, he shouldn't be surprised if some students complain to DPS, especially if they think their time was wasted. The best way to avoid that, if he can't stay under the limit, is make sure the students feel every extra minute was worth it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

If he goes over the time limit, he shouldn't be surprised if some students complain to DPS, especially if they think their time was wasted. The best way to avoid that, if he can't stay under the limit, is make sure the students feel every extra minute was worth it.

What are you talking about?

Chas.

[bizarrenormality]

What are you talking about?

Chas.

Classes that run longer than the new limits. Even if Sherrie said "If they go over the allotted time it is ok" instructors shouldn't be surprised if students who waited a month or more to take a shorter class complain if the class runs over the new time limit.

[jmain]

Well, it seems like the 4-6 hour class should've been a 5-6 hour class...


Lucas

This is what I got out of last few days. I haven't seen the actual class "guide", but they were very repetitive that the 4 hour min included only actual instruction.
Not breaks, not the written test. 4 hours on the 4 "food groups"...which I hate the terminology, but oh well.

So anyone saying it is now a 4 hour class is slightly misrepresenting what the class is(n't).

4 hours min of actual instruction.
Let's say 10 min break every hour -40 min.
30 min for written.

Just over 5 hours of actual class time. This doesn't really account for a larger class that maybe dives into a section with more questions than normal.
I can see with smaller classes teaching 55 minutes, with a 5 minute break and calling it an hour you could reduce my example, but it is not really possible to do a true "4 hour class" and comply.
Haven't even started with shooting proficiency time.

Advertising a "4 hour class" seems to be problematic, from a business model.
If I am wrong , please correct me.

[jmain]

She also said we need to shoot w/both revolver and SA because we needed to know the difference. :( How much difference is there between SA? Compare that w/the difference between NSA and SA. :) I wonder how much she knows about guns.

I don't have a problem with this.

She is an administrator. For someone that has(obviously) learned what she has about firearms because of her job, I think she was quite informed. For all I know she has had her CHL for years prior to this position. She leaned on Stuart for the actual firearms material and he definitely leaned on her for law.

That, I respect. Between the two, they had 99% of the answers.

[Charles L. Cotton]

What are you talking about?

Chas.

Classes that run longer than the new limits. Even if Sherrie said "If they go over the allotted time it is ok" instructors shouldn't be surprised if students who waited a month or more to take a shorter class complain if the class runs over the new time limit.

I see, thanks. I suspect she meant that a we can teach more than the allotted time for any module(s), so long as the class doesn't exceed 6 hours total. Earlier I posted that we would have a 6 hr. class if we used the maximum time allotted for every module, but as someone pointed out, I was mistaken. The class would only be 5 hrs long, so we could go over by a total of one hour and still be within the statutory limits.

I agree that refusing to issue a CHL-100 after 6 hrs of class time would probably result in students complaining to DPS.

Chas.

[dogflight]

I advertise mine as "the new 6-hour" classes. Gives me 4+ hours of actual classroom instruction, an hour for the range, and plenty of time for breaks and the sleek new test. I'd question the apparent edict that the legislated 4 hour minimum excludes breaks and testing (it didn't before - what changed in the actual statutes that now say it does?), but for me it's moot anyway. I'm trying to get the student as trained and informed as is possible in 360 minutes, more or less. And with an hour on the range, I've still got an hour of buffer before exceeding the 6 hour classroom maximum. So, worrying about whether we spent 57 or 75 minutes on a given topic seems rather a silly thing so long as the classroom portion stays within the statutory 4-6 hours.

I strongly feel that NVDR should be removed completely and the time allocated to legal and safety matters. We really shouldn't have to wait until the next session for this: if DPS has the authority to allocate the 4-6 hours as they now hold forth in the training course outline, why not allocate 15 minutes to an NVDR overview which includes "resources for further learning" while fulfilling the mandate to include that food group?

That said, I'm not dismissing NVDR as a valuable tool. But could anyone seriously argue that 45 minutes of Jr High psychology amidst a firehoseing of legal jargon and carry rules can actually teach anyone anything useable about conflict resolution? "Yes, officer, I woulda shot him if I hadn't remembered from my CHL class that he was in a Child ego state and I was in a Parent state..."

[jmain]

I'd question the apparent edict that the legislated 4 hour minimum excludes breaks and testing (it didn't before - what changed in the actual statutes that now say it does?), but for me it's moot anyway. I'm trying to get the student as trained and informed as is possible in 360 minutes, more or less. "

Just stating what was reinforced more than 3x over last 3 days in the new instructors class.
Not stating it is a rule.

[jmain]

[quote="dogflightI strongly feel that NVDR should be removed completely and the time allocated to legal and safety matters. "[/quote]

So I am just curious as a new instructor (If I pass shooting proficiency tomorrow ;) ) why?

NVDR seems very appropriate.

Not arguing, really want to learn this angle of thought.

[o b juan]

Using part of Chas words.
"ability to adapt to your audience. For this reason, I appreciated the tremendous freedom we CHL instructors have enjoyed in prior years. As long as I covered the statutorily-required subjects and met the time requirements, I could do pretty much anything I wanted and the students loved it. The classes were not merely informative, they were also entertaining and we had a great time. That said, most CHL instructors are not old farts with many decades of shooting and teaching experience."

I have always gone where the students need to go and where they lead by their questions If I can get them involed
Sometimes it works..
Did my 1st 4 hour last week if I remeber it was 4:45+, hand gun was 1:10+-

Lucky I was dealing with students in final year of Criminal Justice..

But the really good thing was I Got an Invitation to speak @ a lunchen at the universuty..

You have to make it intresting as Chas said.
It was a problem on Dispute resolution but coverd some of that in deadly force when was AXXed a question..

I still have not received any reply from 3 emails and phone never get through in 14 minutes.. all in the last 12 days. all my paper work has been in about 12 days also..

hu knows

[dogflight]

dogflight wrote: "I strongly feel that NVDR should be removed completely and the time allocated to legal and safety matters."

So I am just curious as a new instructor (If I pass shooting proficiency tomorrow ;) ) why?

NVDR seems very appropriate.

Not arguing, really want to learn this angle of thought.

Well, it's only my opinion, of course: I agree that a thorough understanding of NVDR is something that would serve everyone well, and I actually rather enjoy teaching the subject. However, in 45-60 minutes we are unable to even scratch the surface of a highly complex and highly subjective topic. The end result approaches nothing even remotely resembling a thorough understanding - or really even a useful set of tools that someone might fall back on in a crisis. My feeling is that it is politically correct window dressing that reduces the (now even less) available time left to us to attempt to impart a workable understanding of the laws, rules, and practices that help keep the CHL holder out of jail, and helps keep those around him/her safe from that heat they'll be packing.

Here's a very poor analogy: Let's say new truck drivers were only allowed 10 hours of training before they were allowed to hit the public byways behind the wheel of 40 tons of iron death. Tooling down the freeway beside one of these monsters, I'd be more comfortable knowing that the driver hadn't spent 20-25% of their limited training on a cursory intro to psychology, rather than how to safely handle the beast, and to understand and follow the rules of the road.

Well, I did say it's a poor analogy.

And I'll bet you did great on the proficiency test!