punkndisorderly wrote:You know the law" and "You know I could take you to jail and you could lose your permit." I merely repeat, "I'm sorry officer. I forgot." and "I'm sorry, I haven't been pulled over in 20 years, I'm a little nervous". He let it go with the speeding ticket and a butt chewing.
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4) It doesn't matter how nice you try to be, some officers feel like they have to have a stick up their butt.
LEO's have good and bad days just like everyone else. Sounds like you ran across one who might have been having a bad day.
I hope that you take the time to call his Sgt. and ask him to review the current CHL statutes with his officers. Who knows how receptive he will be, but it sure could help if he did.
Because I'm going to have to drive past that same School Zone every day for the forseeable future, any I don't want a cop with a grudge waiting for me, I just paid the ticket and dropped it. I had considered talking to the supervisor, but felt that chances were good that nothing would come of it. If it was my CIty, I probably would have made the call (as a resident at least I would have some standing).
May have to get one of those ID holders next time I replace my wallet. Thanks for posting pictures.
pcgizzmo wrote:I'm sure this has been covered a million times but he mentioned it was under his seat. So is he carrying under CHL or motorist protection act? Does one over ride the other? I don't remember. I assume if you have CHL that it takes priority.
CHL...can't carry a gun in a school zone without it.
“I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant”
NRA- Life member
TSRA - Conditional Life Member
I practice my "police stops" in my head. My best friend of 27 years is a LEO and gave me a few suggestions
1. Slow down and put on my turn signal to show where I am stopping.
2. Pick a comfortable place, far off of the road, maybe in a parking spot.
3. Roll the window down, turn on map light and if I have time remove my CHL, DL and Insurance. I keep my wallet in my left rear pocket because I am right handed and my gun is usually in a right side holster. I dont want the officer or his partner to see my hands near my gun.
4. I answer his questions politely and directly, this is very important as it reinforces the fact that they are charge of this situation.
5. I do not move my hands around, they stay on my steering wheel in the 10-11 oclock position.
This usually does the trick. I have only been pulled over 3-4 times in 15 years and the outcome has always been positive. They tell me to slow down, be safe and did even right a warning ticket. I believe that having a CHL helps our credibility with LEOs overall.
I still have not come up with a good plan if they want to take my gun. I guess I would ask to exit the vehicle and let them take it from my holster. I just cant imagine an officer wanting ME to touch my gun!
Stay Safe
Brian M
hit harder, first....
In the endless pursuit of perfection, we may achieve excellence.
Texas LTC and School Safety Instructor and NRA Training Counselor
I did not see anyone answer the issue of him no having the gun on him. If I have a gun in the car NOT on me, and I do not have a CHL I do not have to tell the officer anything. Sooooooooo if I have a CHL and the gun is not on my person I should not have to show my CHL,,,,, right???
10/17/09 CHL class
10/19/09 Dropped papers off at the Austin DPS office.
10/20/09 Check cleared bank.
10/28/09 Received pin number.
12/09/09 Sent to the printers!
12/12/09 Application Complete - License Active
12/16/09 Plastic in hand.
I'm pretty sure the wording is "On or about your person" as far as having to present the CHL. I've always been told that anywhere in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is generally considered "on or about your person".
"When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden. The one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream." - speedsix
...I got corrected on that awhile back here...because we have the CHL...GC 411.205 applies to us, not MPA...and "on or about" means in the passenger area of the car...good point...but it makes me wonder...having a CHL...if I've left it home, can I claim MPA while in the car??? I can carry in the car under MPA if my license expires until the new one comes in, but what about if I have a valid license...seems that it should cover me...shouldn't have to give up the right to carry MPA just because we have a CHL...one case might be where my son left his pistol in my truck and I wasn't carrying mine or my CHL...
When asked for ID by an officer, if you're carrying and have a CHL, you are required to display the CHL to the officer (though there is no punishment if you don't or can't).
That is because 411.205 states "If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person...(he must display)" it does NOT say, "If a license holder is carrying under authority of Ch 411, Subchapter H...". Therefore, you have to display the license even if you're not carrying under it's authority.
However, that does NOT mean you are carrying under the authority of that CHL while in an automobile...
46.15(b)(6) is the section that "excepts" section 46.02 (Unlawful carrying weapons) for CHL holders.
However, 46.02(a-1) (MPA) says it is only an offense to carry a handgun in a car if (1) in plain view, or (2) the person is (A) engaged in criminal activity, (B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, or (C) a member of a criminal gang.
If none of those situations exist, then there is nothing illegal about having a handgun in your car, and therefore you don't need the exception granted by 46.15(b)(6). Therefore, if you meet the requirements for MPA, you are carrying under the MPA, even if you have a CHL.
And logically, it simply doesn't make sense to claim that you lose your rights to carry under the MPA by acquiring a license to carry. The point of a license is to grant additional privileges, not to restrict rights you would have otherwise had.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target." Never Forget.
sjfcontrol wrote:
And logically, it simply doesn't make sense to claim that you lose your rights to carry under the MPA by acquiring a license to carry. The point of a license is to grant additional privileges, not to restrict rights you would have otherwise had.
I will believe that when I see a court of competent jurisdiction ruled that way and it is upheld in higher courts.
I do not want to be the test case.
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.
Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.
sjfcontrol wrote:
And logically, it simply doesn't make sense to claim that you lose your rights to carry under the MPA by acquiring a license to carry. The point of a license is to grant additional privileges, not to restrict rights you would have otherwise had.
I will believe that when I see a court of competent jurisdiction ruled that way and it is upheld in higher courts.
I do not want to be the test case.
That's fine. The line of my post that you quoted was secondary, anyway, to the primary argument. But you're right that there is no case law to back up my statements. As there is little to no case law to back up most of the disputes that arise on this forum. And given the inherent lawfulness of most CHL licensees, that isn't likely to change anytime soon.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target." Never Forget.
speedsix wrote:...I got corrected on that awhile back here...because we have the CHL...GC 411.205 applies to us, not MPA...and "on or about" means in the passenger area of the car...good point...but it makes me wonder...having a CHL...if I've left it home, can I claim MPA while in the car??? I can carry in the car under MPA if my license expires until the new one comes in, but what about if I have a valid license...seems that it should cover me...shouldn't have to give up the right to carry MPA just because we have a CHL...one case might be where my son left his pistol in my truck and I wasn't carrying mine or my CHL...
Easy to solve: Keep CHL, DL, Insurance in your wallet at all times you are up and about. That's what pant pockets are for...LOL.
sjfcontrol wrote:
And logically, it simply doesn't make sense to claim that you lose your rights to carry under the MPA by acquiring a license to carry. The point of a license is to grant additional privileges, not to restrict rights you would have otherwise had.
I will believe that when I see a court of competent jurisdiction ruled that way and it is upheld in higher courts.
I do not want to be the test case.
That's fine. The line of my post that you quoted was secondary, anyway, to the primary argument. But you're right that there is no case law to back up my statements. As there is little to no case law to back up most of the disputes that arise on this forum. And given the inherent lawfulness of most CHL licensees, that isn't likely to change anytime soon.
That is quite likely.
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.
Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.
speedsix wrote:...I got corrected on that awhile back here...because we have the CHL...GC 411.205 applies to us, not MPA...and "on or about" means in the passenger area of the car...good point...but it makes me wonder...having a CHL...if I've left it home, can I claim MPA while in the car??? I can carry in the car under MPA if my license expires until the new one comes in, but what about if I have a valid license...seems that it should cover me...shouldn't have to give up the right to carry MPA just because we have a CHL...one case might be where my son left his pistol in my truck and I wasn't carrying mine or my CHL...
Easy to solve: Keep CHL, DL, Insurance in your wallet at all times you are up and about. That's what pant pockets are for...LOL.
...I carry my wallet 24/7, thank you, so that I have it if I jump out into the neighborhood in the middle of the night...my insurance stays in the truck...I gave a "might be" to show where some CHL holder might be without his CHL or pistol, and yet there be a gun in the car...and asked if MPA would trump the need to show CHL then...you don't know NUTTIN' 'bout pockets, Sir...I carry about 3# of necessary items in my pockets every time I put on my jeans...Mama NEVER swatted my butt before makin' me unload 'em...not since she grabbed me up at about 7 and busted her hand on the "D" cell batteries I had crammed in my pockets...why, who knows???
