pulled over, temporarily disarmed, was told I was lucky

[Valhalla1]

so I was headed home from the gf's house, I admit I was eager to get home and was likely speeding a little bit, but nothing drastic and there was no traffic about. Look up in my rearview and see the red and blue lights barreling down on me with sirens blaring. Get the spotlight on me as I roll the windows down and rest my hands on the wheel. Meanwhile two more police cars have pulled up and I'm surrounded. Give him my chl and dl and tell him I have a gun in my left pocket. He has me exit the vehicle with my hands on the door, and he reached into my pockets and took my pistol. Has me stand behind my truck as he unloads it onto his car hood, and pats me down for further weapons.
At this point he says, "keltec? ruger?" I say yep, Ruger LCP. He explains I was racing or driving recklessly and he had to "go 80 just to catch me". I remain calm and explain I wasn't sure how fast I was going but that I'm normally a safe driver. (while knowing I probably was doing 5-10 over). He says if you are driving recklessly and carrying, they can charge me with illegally carrying. Another officer who had flanked me to my right speaks up and says "Basically what he means is, if you're out here driving recklessly, your CHL doesn't mean anything. I just say 'I understand'.

I never acknowledged that I was speeding or doing anything illegal, I said I wasn't watching my speedometer but I was pretty sure I was going the speed limit, and I ask if there is a radar. He then realizes I'm not going to incriminate myself by admitting to speeding verbally, and says "You're lucky, I'm going to cut you a huge break. I don't have a radar in my car so I'm not going to charge you with reckless driving" and gives me a speech about how if you are doing anything illegal (worse than class b misdemeanor) while carrying, then they charge you with carrying illegally despite the CHL. I explained that I understood, and I said that I respected the job they do. He appreciated that I was calm and followed all the procedures, etc. Then he gets to checking out my Ruger LCP, asking me about the laser. We start talking guns a bit and the tension lightens significantly and finally he sends me on my way with a warning. He re-loads my pistol and puts it under my passenger seat, and says I can get it after I pull away and pull off the road. He says if I am going to be out racing, to leave the gun at home. Hand shakes all around, and I'm on my way.

so in summary, keep your cool, play by the rules, but don't ever verbally admit to speeding or any other traffic violation, they are trained to get you to verbally admit something they can use against you. And drive safely, seems at least in these parts the police are quick to jump to the 'reckless driving' conclusion on just about any traffic stop, which apparently is enough to lose your CHL and possibly be charged for carrying illegally.

[nitrogen]

Which agency admitted to you that they will fabricate charges? (charging you with carrying illegally even if you have a CHL?)

[Valhalla1]

they explained if someone is carrying while you are committing a crime of of class B or worse then they would would charged with carrying a firearm illegally, CHL or not. Is this incorrect information ? I just took their word for it, and assumed they thought I was out racing or something (small city, the kids race their mustangs and what not on the weekends), and I do drive a fast truck (ford f150 svt) but I was just trying to get home, around midnight with no little traffic around. san angelo, tx for what its worth

[nitrogen]

I'm not a lawyer or a cop. That's interesting interpretation of the laws.

Yes, you can LOSE your CHL for being convicted of a class B or higher misdemeanor, but I can't see how you can be guilty of unlawful carry of a weapon if you were legally carrying one, even while committing a class B or worse misdemeanor. Especially if said crime didn't involve any violence.

A REAL lawyer or cop will chime in, I'm sure.

[gemini]

so I was headed home from the gf's house, I admit I was eager to get home and was likely speeding a little bit, but nothing drastic and there was no traffic about. Look up in my rearview and see the red and blue lights barreling down on me with sirens blaring. Get the spotlight on me as I roll the windows down and rest my hands on the wheel. Meanwhile two more police cars have pulled up and I'm surrounded. Give him my chl and dl and tell him I have a gun in my left pocket. He has me exit the vehicle with my hands on the door, and he reached into my pockets and took my pistol. Has me stand behind my truck as he unloads it onto his car hood, and pats me down for further weapons.
At this point he says, "keltec? ruger?" I say yep, Ruger LCP. He explains I was racing or driving recklessly and he had to "go 80 just to catch me". I remain calm and explain I wasn't sure how fast I was going but that I'm normally a safe driver. (while knowing I probably was doing 5-10 over). He says if you are driving recklessly and carrying, they can charge me with illegally carrying. Another officer who had flanked me to my right speaks up and says "Basically what he means is, if you're out here driving recklessly, your CHL doesn't mean $***" (quote). I just say 'I understand'.

I never acknowledged that I was speeding or doing anything illegal, I said I wasn't watching my speedometer but I was pretty sure I was going the speed limit, and I ask if there is a radar. He then realizes I'm not going to incriminate myself by admitting to speeding verbally, and says "You're lucky, I'm going to cut you a huge break. I don't have a radar in my car so I'm not going to charge you with reckless driving" and gives me a speech about how if you are doing anything illegal (worse than class b misdemeanor) while carrying, then they charge you with carrying illegally despite the CHL. I explained that I understood, and I said that I respected the job they do. He appreciated that I was calm and followed all the procedures, etc. Then he gets to checking out my Ruger LCP, asking me about the laser. We start talking guns a bit and the tension lightens significantly and finally he sends me on my way with a warning. He re-loads my pistol and puts it under my passenger seat, and says I can get it after I pull away and pull off the road. He says if I am going to be out racing, to leave the gun at home. Hand shakes all around, and I'm on my way.

so in summary, keep your cool, play by the rules, but don't ever verbally admit to speeding or any other traffic violation, they are trained to get you to verbally admit something they can use against you. And drive safely, seems at least in these parts the police are quick to jump to the 'reckless driving' conclusion on just about any traffic stop, which apparently is enough to lose your CHL.

5-10 over? You are a danger to the other citizens in your community and a very naughty boy. The San Angelo PD must have had
absolutely nothing to do...... you speeding and 3 cars surround you? They reach into your pocket and pull out your LCP. Lucky he didn't shoot
you in the leg. Sorry, but every time I hear of a LEO verbally abusing a CHL, disarming, unloading, later placing the gun in the trunk or under a seat etc etc when there is NO threat from the CHL, there is no raised voice or combative manner...... kind of makes me wonder about
the quality of the LEO's training. It makes me wonder about the LEO's personal views on CHL or 2nd A rights by citizens. Glad you "got off" with a warning and not charged with: speeding, illegal carry, reckless driving...... consider yourself lucky...... you could have gotten stick time (be glad you weren't on a motorcycle, J/K).

[Valhalla1]

well playing it back in my head now I am quite sure they were saying I was on the razors edge of being charged with illegally carrying a firearm, because of the speech about class B's and the other guys curt summary of "your CHL won't mean anything"

also once it got to the point of me showing my DL and CHL it became 100% about the gun, disarming me, positioning me hands up back of truck while covered on all sides while they checked everything out. never asked for proof of insurance, registration, where are you going, where are you coming from, the standard things. It was all about the gun and what I should not be doing while carrying it, and then chatting about lasers - the second officer was curious about built in lasers, I said he could get a lasermax guide rod replacement for his issued glock, but he said it wouldn't hold up to their brutal training regiment. He said they buy a shotgun for training and it might last only 15 minutes. I just said ok and nodded, while in my head thinking .


also I was trying to look back over my shoulder when I heard him both unloading and re-loading and re-chambering my gun behind me, but couldn't see him due to the spotlight on my face. I was just praying he wasn't sweeping me with the muzzle or having his finger in the trigger guard. This was also the first time in my life I felt old at 28 years old, the officer who pulled me over and was handling my weapon the whole time looked like he was a skinny 18 year old, but surely you have to be at least 21, but I was telling him "yes sir" this and "no sir" that and thinking I've never dealt with an authority figure younger than me until now

[Valhalla1]

by the way this was the second time I've been pulled over since I got my plastic and started carrying. The first time was totally fine though - was on the same street but during the day, and by a motorcycle cop who noticed my registration sticker was expired as I drove by. He pulled me over, I showed him my DL and CHL and said I have a weapon in my pocket. He just said its no problem as long as I dont reach for it. He pointed out my registration sticker, I pointed to my passenger seat where I had my new plates and sticker I had got the day before but not yet put on. He didn't bother to run my DL# or anything and just said 'ok, put em on when you get a chance' and sent me on my way, took maybe 90 seconds.

[TexasGal]

Sounds like the local cops in the tiny town my dad lives in. When they are bored, the local citizens all walk on eggshells. The town can't afford to hire any but the worst apparently and their job is to make revenue with as many tickets as possible. When I drive through there on a visit, I try my best to obey even the smallest letter of the law. I certainly don't want to find out what they will do to a CHL holder who is armed. You handled it the best way you could. If you had lost your cool, it would have been no fun. I hope one day we have the less stellar cops weeded out better. The fine men and women who serve professionally must get tired of having to catch the fallout from citizens who think all cops just want to revel in a power trip.

[Beiruty]

I am not a lawyer but I call the threat of UWC charge an intimidation and harassment. If he was a smart LEO he would not mess with CHLer since CHLer would most likely be more knowledgable about TX law and TX firearms law.
You did act correctly. Stay cool.

[gigag04]

I am not a lawyer but I call the threat of UWC charge an intimidation and harassment.

Harassment is only possible by phone, text, or e-mail.

I thought you, as a CHL holder, knew the Texas laws :)

If he was a smart LEO he would not mess with CHLer since CHLer would most likely be more knowledgable about TX law and TX firearms

As far as the OP, I'll have to see video or hear audio to comment.

[terryg]

I thought you, as a CHL holder, knew the Texas laws :)

Seriously?? I didn't know that. So I'm just curious, lets say you did have a local LEO who is sorta stalking you. He finds reasons to pull you over several times a week - even if not writing tickets. Could that not be considered police harassment?

[gigag04]

Nope. Maybe official oppression.

[C-dub]

Clarification please, Gigag04.

If the same thing is done, but in person, what is it called?

EDIT: Oops. Took too long fixing breakfast to hit reply button.

[terryg]

Nope. Maybe official oppression.

I did not know that! Thank you.

[Beiruty]

Say your neighbor knocks on your door each morning and softly tells you he is calling the police cause you have and do carry guns. He does that each morning. Harrassment?