Speaker Bonnen's betrayal of Texas gun-owners

[mojo84]

Charles,
I am not trying to be confrontational or knock/bash you or the NRA. Again, I will remind you and others, we are on the same side of when it comes to gun issues. I am just confused as I seem to be getting conflicting info regarding how the NRA develops it's ratings. See the thread at these links. www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... s#p1173537
www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... s&start=30

Re: Straus not running for a new term.
#23 Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:12 pm
Captain Matt wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
I would assume the NRA ratings are based on actual votes or legislation sponsored, not just surveys.
Maybe so but (1) they don't seem to be based on results and (2) gun rights bills do get killed behind the scenes and I can't recall anybody getting downgraded for it. Either way the lack of transparency in grading results in a lack of usefulness for myself and others. Which is fine if that's what they're shooting for.
As ScottDLS noted, grades are based on votes, not questionnaires unless the person is a freshman with no voting record. You act as though we don't pass pro-gun bills and that complete garbage. Gun bills die in the House based upon the Speaker and in the Senate based upon the Lt. Governor. Yet you want to blast all Republicans you call RINOs and the NRA for its rating system. You clearly don't know how the Legislature works.

Chas.

My sense is that Bonnen will lose his NRA “A” grade in one fell swoop after this session. What a catastrophe his speakership has turned out to be.

We'll see. Not sure how they take into account such as this since they use recorded votes and published positions on gun issues. I understand them trying to keep their ratings as objective as possible but as long as reps can hide behind not voting and killing bills in committee with them getting a vote, I do not know how they will change the system to consider such.

Hopefully, they'll figure something out.

We can and do consider any action taken that impacts the Second Amendment.

Chas.

Here is a quote of me when I said I think the NRA should take more into consideration than just votes.

Re: Straus not running for a new term.
#33 Post by mojo84 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:30 am
My point is that I am not sure the TSRA or NRA takes enough into consideration when they assign their ratings. I think one has to look beyond just voting record when it comes to the speaker of the house.

First, you need to block the quotes properly so it doesn't appear that I wrote statements that were made by other members.

Secondly, the posts you quoted are not inconsistent with what I posted in this thread. Here, you stated that NRA/TSRA only grades based upon votes. The two year old post you quoted dealt with votes v. questionnaire responses. For the first time in decades, a Republican Speaker appointed one F-rated Democrat and one D-rated Democrat to chair the two most important committees for gun-owners. Bonnen earned his A-rating with his votes. Once in power as Speaker, he betrayed Texas gun-owners. Unlike most representatives, we have more upon which to rate Bonnen down.

Straus-haters and the all-or-nothing crowd want to equate him with Bonnen's actions and they are not equivalent by any stretch of the imagination.

Chas.

I apologize for messing up the quote. I copied and pasted from the other thread and the quotes indicators were not copied. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it. Please note I did provide a link in order to make sure there was no confusion with regard to context. Attach is a screenshot for clarification.

As far as your dig about Straus haters and all-or-nothing crowd, I can assure you I am not a part of the all-or-nothing crowd. That dig was uncalled for and inaccurate. As far as being a Straus hater, that is somewhat accurate as I have developed a great distrust for him and his lieutenants that did his dirty work during his tenure as Speaker. As far as Bonnen being equivalent, I do not know. However, I do know he was a very close ally of and a lieutenant for Straus. Because of that I was not surprised when Bonnen did what he did and I did not feel dupe as many do.

I understand with all you have invested in 2nd Amendment issues this is very personal and an emotional hot button for you. However, someone that is trying to better understand how something works and how the NRA develops it's ratings doesn't deserve your digs and innuendo.

All I was trying to do is get a better understanding of the NRA ratings development as I have been provided conflicting information over the years. Some have said votes only, some have said votes, questuonnaires if no voting record available and others have said position papers are also included. Now it appears other actions may also be included. That's good new because other actions should be included.

I apologize for stepping on your toes. I tried to ask the question in a way I wouldn't.

[mojo84]

www.nrapvf.org/about-pvf/

[cherokeepilot]

Charles.....

Thank you for your work in keeping folks appraised of the activities going on down in Austin during this session. After having lived in Austin through various sessions, I became and remain cynical of anything coming from there. Again, thanks for your efforts......73s

[LDB415]

As I age my initially very short attention span and tolerance quotient continue to shrink. I now look for things covered in 3 sentences or less and allow about 10 seconds before stamping the unacceptable label. A little over 2 decades ago when he was my state representative, before he changed districts, Bonnen was a good guy. I don't know when he turned to the wrong side but he's got the unacceptable label now. We need to replace him in the next election.

[ralewis]

Charles,
I am not trying to be confrontational or knock/bash you or the NRA. Again, I will remind you and others, we are on the same side of when it comes to gun issues. I am just confused as I seem to be getting conflicting info regarding how the NRA develops it's ratings. See the thread at these links. www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... s#p1173537
www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... s&start=30

Re: Straus not running for a new term.
#23 Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:12 pm
Captain Matt wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
I would assume the NRA ratings are based on actual votes or legislation sponsored, not just surveys.
Maybe so but (1) they don't seem to be based on results and (2) gun rights bills do get killed behind the scenes and I can't recall anybody getting downgraded for it. Either way the lack of transparency in grading results in a lack of usefulness for myself and others. Which is fine if that's what they're shooting for.
As ScottDLS noted, grades are based on votes, not questionnaires unless the person is a freshman with no voting record. You act as though we don't pass pro-gun bills and that complete garbage. Gun bills die in the House based upon the Speaker and in the Senate based upon the Lt. Governor. Yet you want to blast all Republicans you call RINOs and the NRA for its rating system. You clearly don't know how the Legislature works.

Chas.

My sense is that Bonnen will lose his NRA “A” grade in one fell swoop after this session. What a catastrophe his speakership has turned out to be.

We'll see. Not sure how they take into account such as this since they use recorded votes and published positions on gun issues. I understand them trying to keep their ratings as objective as possible but as long as reps can hide behind not voting and killing bills in committee with them getting a vote, I do not know how they will change the system to consider such.

Hopefully, they'll figure something out.

We can and do consider any action taken that impacts the Second Amendment.

Chas.

Here is a quote of me when I said I think the NRA should take more into consideration than just votes.

Re: Straus not running for a new term.
#33 Post by mojo84 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:30 am
My point is that I am not sure the TSRA or NRA takes enough into consideration when they assign their ratings. I think one has to look beyond just voting record when it comes to the speaker of the house.

First, you need to block the quotes properly so it doesn't appear that I wrote statements that were made by other members.

Secondly, the posts you quoted are not inconsistent with what I posted in this thread. Here, you stated that NRA/TSRA only grades based upon votes. The two year old post you quoted dealt with votes v. questionnaire responses. For the first time in decades, a Republican Speaker appointed one F-rated Democrat and one D-rated Democrat to chair the two most important committees for gun-owners. Bonnen earned his A-rating with his votes. Once in power as Speaker, he betrayed Texas gun-owners. Unlike most representatives, we have more upon which to rate Bonnen down.

Straus-haters and the all-or-nothing crowd want to equate him with Bonnen's actions and they are not equivalent by any stretch of the imagination.

Chas.

I grew up in PA and have only been in TX for 20 years. I can't quite wrap my head around the rationale of appointing a minority party Chair to a committee. Was this to prevent Republicans from having to vote on potentially uncomfortable pro-gun legislation or is there some other Texas political tradition being observed?

[ELB]

I grew up in PA and have only been in TX for 20 years. I can't quite wrap my head around the rationale of appointing a minority party Chair to a committee. Was this to prevent Republicans from having to vote on potentially uncomfortable pro-gun legislation or is there some other Texas political tradition being observed?

It's vote-buying. And possibly looking ahead to a potential Dem majority.

While the Republican majority voting by itself could elect a House speaker if it voted together, there are conservative and liberal splits with in the Republicans. If Bonnen depended solely on Republican votes, he would have to make a deal with the conservative elements to get them to vote for him, and that might not happen immediately. The conservative candidates for House speaker would be doing the same thing with the more moderate or liberal Republicans.

Bonnen knows that the Dems know that with a Republican majority the Dems could be shut out altogether. But if Bonnen could convince the Dems to vote for him, he would not even need a majority of the Republicans to vote for him to become Speaker. And that's what he did: he sold out his Republican peers and Party to buy all the Democrats' votes in exchange for giving them influence. He only needed a few more Republican votes to get a majority of the votes in the House, and he no doubt did this with other chair and committee membership appointments.

Straus did the same thing, but Bonnen paid a much higher price -- key committee chairmenships, the 2A, and his integrity.

I also wonder if he may not be thinking that the Dems will take the House in the future, or that is district is trending Dem, so he's positioning himself for the future when he thinks they are in charge and he jumps ship.

[Grumpy1993]

I grew up in PA and have only been in TX for 20 years. I can't quite wrap my head around the rationale of appointing a minority party Chair to a committee. Was this to prevent Republicans from having to vote on potentially uncomfortable pro-gun legislation or is there some other Texas political tradition being observed?

Naw. It's just spitting in the face of Texas conservatives who vote Republican year after year.

Straus was able to kill major pro gun bills even with Republican chairs. Many bills were left pending in committee with no vote, so no committee members had to vote against pro gun legislation and expose their true colors. A few were passed out of committee for show, and then quietly killed in Straus' hand-picked Calendars Committee, to make sure no representative had to cast a public floor vote.

They did throw us a bone occasionally, like dropping the LTC fee to double the DL fee instead of 5x the DL fee. Can't make it too obvious they're blocking legislation to restore civil rights to legal gun owners.

[Scott Farkus]

I grew up in PA and have only been in TX for 20 years. I can't quite wrap my head around the rationale of appointing a minority party Chair to a committee. Was this to prevent Republicans from having to vote on potentially uncomfortable pro-gun legislation or is there some other Texas political tradition being observed?

I don't get it either. Apparently it has to do with the way the speaker is elected. Republicans have held actual or near supermajorities for a quarter century - a Democrat should never even sniff power in the Lege, much less hold a committee chair.

I have to quit keeping up with this thread, it makes me too angry.

[Ruark]

Keep in mind also that while some of us tend to eat, sleep and breath gun issues, to most legislators, it's just one tiny crumb on a very large table.

[EastTexasRancher]

Face it: Texas is turning blue. When many other states around the country are turning to or entertaining constitutional carry, we’ve ground to a halt.

Pop this thread up two years from now. I got $5 that says we’ll be going backwards by then.

Lord I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

[Oldgringo]

I'm glad that Mrs. Oldgringo and I were able to freely observe our 77th birthdays last month. The whole republic, including Texas, is going down the toilet. We shouldn't be around to see the septic tank pump out...if there is one.

Good luck, y'all.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Keep in mind also that while some of us tend to eat, sleep and breath gun issues, to most legislators, it's just one tiny crumb on a very large table.

This is the political reality that we have to deal with every session. This is why the all-or-nothing approach does not work.

Chas.

[Grumpy1993]

If it's not a big issue to them, a simple big change with huge benefits makes a lot more sense than complicated, convoluted, chipping away, year after year.

If it's not a big issue to them, they could pass gun rights restoration clean up by Local and Consent Calendars.

[mojo84]

It's a shame restoring gun rights doesn't get as much attention and support in the legislative committees as the creation of additional taxing districts such as MUDs. MUDs are hot lately and seem to be getting a lot of support.