open carry bill filed

[johnferg69]

Since they used the phrase "dual points of resistance" and not "dual points of retention," one could argue that a kydex holster with recesses that resist at the trigger guard and at the ejection port provide "dual points of resistance."

Oh wow...check out the link to the article in this thread for more info about "dual points of resistance"

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Has there been a rash of folks taking OC'ers guns in other states? I know of one incident in VA, but that is about it.

The article says Level 2, but the letter of the bill doesn't say that. Is there an established precedent that "dual points of resistance" means Level 2?

In my quick read through the bill I could not see a reason they could force Level 2 holsters.

A holster that resists(provides tension) at the muzzle and at the trigger guard - like the quality boned leather holsters I have - should meet a dual point requirement.

Of course, IANAL, nor have I played one on TV.

That would be nice!!! My trusty kydex holds my M&P snug enough if the grip gets caught I almost get a wedgy if its pulled at an odd angle.

[Right2Carry]

Why are things so difficult here in Texas? OK got a OC bill to pass and the sky didn't come crashing down nor did the state spontaneously combust.

[steveincowtown]

Why are things so difficult here in Texas? OK got a OC bill to pass and the sky didn't come crashing down nor did the state spontaneously combust.

Agreed.

To be quite frank, not sure why everyone is so worked up about the bill. IMHO, Strauss wouldn't let a perfect bill see the light of day, much less this one.

[DEB]

Why are things so difficult here in Texas? OK got a OC bill to pass and the sky didn't come crashing down nor did the state spontaneously combust.

Agreed.

To be quite frank, not sure why everyone is so worked up about the bill. IMHO, Strauss wouldn't let a perfect bill see the light of day, much less this one.

Also agree. My wife and I recently took a road trip through Oklahoma and on to Arizona through New Mexico, all of which are open carry. I have Kin in all three states, who are very pro-gun and brag as how they have rights to open carry, but they still don't open carry. And with all that said, throughout my drive, I didn't see one person open carrying. I do know of some who concealed carry, the same as myself, see Kin above, but no one open carried. This of course doesn't mean that no one does, just that I didn't see anyone. Probably just as Charles stated in a different post about the Old West, most folks, even today, will try to be as unobtrusive as possible.

[Aggie_engr]

Just got off the phone with Lavenders office, spoke with a staffer named Bryan.
This is what I was told;
The 30.06 wording was removed because their is a question of the constitutionality of 2 different signs for carry even if its 2 different types of carry. If one type of carry is allowed it may be unconstitutional to stop another. This is something they what to clarify and fix as the bill progresses.

The "dual points of resistance" is in reportedly to help get backing from LE agencies. Bryan stated that this one complaint last session with the OC bill. LE is concerned about people who OC being unknowingly disarmed

The unintentional failure to conceal was left in because they want complete concealment or "dual points of resistance" OC. Not lackadaisical conceal carry. This is to help enforce the difference.

This is completely inconsistent thinking. It seems like they took all of the ideas regarding open and concealed carry, put them in a bucket and splashed it on a canvas to come up with this bill.

My question to Lavenders office would be, so you amend TPC 30.06 to allow OC, but then you put in a holster requirement to be able to OC that isn't there for CC? So effectively you are once again discriminating against one form of carry? Makes no sense.

I agree with Charles and others who have posted already. TPC 30.06 shall not be amended for the sake of OC!!!

[Z0Tex]

I surely hope this gets amended. I want to have the option to open carry but not if it restricts concealed carry in any way.

[MeMelYup]

Open carry needs its own sign. Leave 30.06 alone!

[MeMelYup]

Repeal or amend the law that regulates open carry, and they can't open carry past a gun buster sign.

[joelamosobadiah]

I want to thank everyone who has expressed support for Open Carry in our state. The response has been phenomenal ! I also want to say that some folks believe that our bill changes the 30.06 signage requirement. That is not our intent. We worked with the NRA, who has been very supportive, to come up with a bill that would not make a business bar concealed carry because they may have concerns about Open Carry. The new signage applies only to Open Carry. We will have several more attorneys and interested parties review the language next week to make sure that's what we have done. If we missed the mark, it will be fixed. The last thing we want is to diminish our right to concealed carry in an attempt to expand our legal carry rights. Thank you all.

Makes me wonder if this was hastily written? If somebody wrote the bill who didn't fully understand Rep. Lavender's intent? If we're getting a smoke screen to garner support...?

My bet is on 1 or 2 honestly. I guess now we see if it is in fact "fixed".

[Kythas]

Also agree. My wife and I recently took a road trip through Oklahoma and on to Arizona through New Mexico, all of which are open carry. I have Kin in all three states, who are very pro-gun and brag as how they have rights to open carry, but they still don't open carry. And with all that said, throughout my drive, I didn't see one person open carrying. I do know of some who concealed carry, the same as myself, see Kin above, but no one open carried. This of course doesn't mean that no one does, just that I didn't see anyone. Probably just as Charles stated in a different post about the Old West, most folks, even today, will try to be as unobtrusive as possible.

I was passing through Arizona this past summer and saw numerous people OCing. In fact, there was one convenience store we stopped at to get gas and, out of the 7-8 customers in the store, only one was not open carrying.

Even the elderly black gentleman who was mopping the floor inside the store, so I assume he was either the owner or an employee, had a S&W Model 686 strapped to his hip.

[smtimelevi]

I used to live in AZ and saw folks open carrying in Phoenix city limits. Not on a daily basis or anything but often enough. The most frequent were motorcycle riders. This needs to pass, and in my opinion it should be permit less to give folks that dont want to shell out the dollars for a CHL self defense options. There are already many instances where open carry in Texas is legal. The way this bill needs to be pushed is to simply state that some of the restricted locations for open carry are being removed to give people legitimate ways to defend themselves. Baby steps I know.
Open carry shouldnt affect concealed carry in anyway.

All of the hooping and hollering from people saying that " police wouldnt be able to distinguish criminals from legal carriers." That is such one sided thinking, for several reasons.
1. how is that different than if a person is committing a crime? If open carry becomes legal the mere presence of a firearm doesnt mean that that person carrying is doing something wrong, people that think this are obviously bias. These people that are against it are using Police safety as a reason not to pass this.
2. For people to assume that police are going to confront everyone that is carrying to check their credibility or because some concerned citizen called in is not going to fly any more than police stopping every nice car to check if the driver is a drug dealer.

[RottenApple]

There are already many instances where open carry in Texas is legal.

Ok. I'll bite. Other than 1) on your own property or property you control, 2) as a CSO or PPO in the performance of or on your way to/from duty, and 3) long guns (and I assume we are talking about handguns here), where can you open carry in Texas?

[AEA]

Ummmm........Gunshow?

And....while hunting......

And.....while on a Range.....

[CJD]

There are already many instances where open carry in Texas is legal.

Ok. I'll bite. Other than 1) on your own property or property you control, 2) as a CSO or PPO in the performance of or on your way to/from duty, and 3) long guns (and I assume we are talking about handguns here), where can you open carry in Texas?

I saw something before about a clause in the law that said you can open carry while traveling, and from the small amount I looked into it it looked legitimate, but I wouldn't take the risk of open carrying under the ambiguity of "traveling".

[tico]

Just got off the phone with Bryan Smith and Noah Gilliam from Rep. Lavender's office thanking them for filing HB700, but also wanting to clarify the problems with modifying 30.06.

They say that the NRA asked them to make those changes to get the bill passed but they're aware of the problems and will be amending it. I asked for them to either create a separate sign (30.07?) that would apply to only prohibit open carry, or just allow the old gun busters sign to work for now. Having a separate sign for open carry would be an additional annoyance for anti-gun business owners to post up two signs, but also would allow for supporters for concealed carry only to still allow that method of carry without having to ban all forms of carry with a single sign.

When I asked for why they added "or unconcealed" all throughout the penal code instead of just striking 46.035a they said that had come from NRA as well after their experience during the last legislative session, but just needed to get *something* filed early in the process even though they intended to amend it as they went along.

As for the holster requirements, that was done to get support from law enforcement organizations, though none have publicly stated support for this bill as of now.

Please give them a call (512-463-0692) and your local representative too.