MN: Man arrested after killing burglars

[recaffeination]

I agree that a lot of aspects of this case point to a mental disorder.

I agree it sounds like there's all kinds of crazy on both sides, but it doesn't sound like the homeowner was a danger to anybody except felons in the act, while the burglars were a danger to people sitting at home minding their own business.

[seamusTX]

... the burglars were a danger to people sitting at home minding their own business.

That could be true.

However, at the moment of a burglary, robbery, or assault, the intended victim knows only what is in front of him or her. The perpetrator's history is usually unknown (not always), and what the perpetrator might do in the future is not a consideration.

If we could kill people for what they might do, we would have to kill everyone at birth or maybe age seven. (For those without a sense of irony, I am not suggesting that this would be morally acceptable.)

After a criminal defendant is found guilty at trial, the defendant's history and future potential as a threat are valid considerations at sentencing.

- Jim

[McKnife]

I would prefer "more than I needed to" than "not enough" anytime.

Not guilty, unless proven guilty by a jury of his peers.

Thanks for your service.

[mamabearCali]

I don't have a great deal to say on the man. Just that the whole situation is rather strange.

However, let it be known that being a burglar is indeed a dangerous profession. I do not recommend it.

[seamusTX]

I would prefer "more than I needed to" than "not enough" anytime.

So far that is working out great in this case. Hopefully the jailers will put the guy in the infirmary so he doesn't get shanked by a 20-year-old gang-banger. He'll be bankrupt no matter what. His best bet is to get a change of venue and be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

- Jim

[JALLEN]

No telling what REALLY was going on, but this guy needs to learn that "nothing is often a good thing to do, and always a clever thing to say," as Will Durant so eloquently stated it.

If he is convicted, it will be because in large part he talked himself into it.

[jbenat]

No matter how this shakes out it does not put gun owners in a good light. All it takes is one crazy nut case to get the gun grabbers all worked up.
I would have no problem shooting anyone entering my home with intent of doing me, or my family, harm, or stealing my stuff. But it's really hard to believe anyone in their right mind would deliberately shoot a downed burglar in the head and under the chin as finishing shots. Then wait until the next day to call the cops! This guy should never be anywhere near a gun for the rest of his life....after he is released from prison!

[seamusTX]

No matter how this shakes out it does not put gun owners in a good light. All it takes is one crazy nut case to get the gun grabbers all worked up.

It doesn't look good, but they already have enough cases of people who could legally buy and possess firearms who went off the deep end.

I just wish they would go after the people who commit vehicular homicide or use knives, blunt instruments, or their bare hands. Maybe we need to license hands.

- Jim

[jdhz28]

They are going to hang this guy, frankly because he is a nut. I read this on the http://news.yahoo.com/minn-man-says-fir ... 41818.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; yahoo address. The bad news is it make responsible folks look bad....The good news is maybe bad kids in that area will be less inclined to break into peoples houses.

[ELB]

"Brady's [the male] sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer [the female] had stolen prescription drugs from her home before."

Prediction on jumbled evidence so far (why not, this is the internet): Brady and Kifer were indeed little drug-fueled burglars, not innocent little kids, and were in the process of burgling the house for drugs and/or cash and/or things they could sell.

Smith (the homeowner) was indeed somewhat addled for some reason, early dementia, his own prescription drugs, what-have-you, and was unable to control an otherwise legal response to intruders. Not only did his addled state contribute to overkill, but it scrambled his perception and memory of the event, and led to his panic afterwards (i.e. hiding the bodies instead of calling the cops). People are not the best of witnesses anyway, and the more emotionally involved, the more their perceptions and memories get warped or left out altogether. Would not surprise me to find out that Kifer's "laugh" after being shot was actually forceful gasping or something similar.

I hope the school administrators and grief counselors take a moment to point out to the students that if you don't screw yourself up by abusing drugs and breaking into houses, then crazy old men who are otherwise not hurting anybody won't have a chance to over zealously defend their homes.

[WildBill]

I hope the school administrators and grief counselors take a moment to point out to the students that if you don't screw yourself up by abusing drugs and breaking into houses, then crazy old men who are otherwise not hurting anybody won't have a chance to over zealously defend their homes.

Well said.

[seamusTX]

I hope the school administrators and grief counselors take a moment to point out to the students that if you don't screw yourself up by abusing drugs and breaking into houses, then crazy old men who are otherwise not hurting anybody won't have a chance to over zealously defend their homes.

If only it worked that way.

"Scared straight" programs can work with some kids. When I was in high school they took us on a tour of Cook County jail. This was a bad place. You could smell it from the parking lot. Years later I realized that the inmates that we encountered probably were trustys who were stationed to do exactly what they did, which was scare the stuffing out of us. One of them stuck his well-muscled arm between the bars and said something like, "Yum, fresh meat."

Also those wrecked cars and ghost plays might deter some kids from drinking and driving.

However, some don't learn by example, and some are removed from the gene pool. It's sad. It really is. Probably a dozen living people will not be the same after this incident, for the rest of their lives.

- Jim

[JALLEN]

If only it worked that way.

"Scared straight" programs can work with some kids. When I was in high school they took us on a tour of Cook County jail. This was a bad place. You could smell it from the parking lot. Years later I realized that the inmates that we encountered probably were trustys who were stationed to do exactly what they did, which was scare the stuffing out of us. One of them stuck his well-muscled arm between the bars and said something like, "Yum, fresh meat."

Also those wrecked cars and ghost plays might deter some kids from drinking and driving.

However, some don't learn by example, and some are removed from the gene pool. It's sad. It really is. Probably a dozen living people will not be the same after this incident, for the rest of their lives.

- Jim

Survival of the fittest seems to be the rule that no Legislature can amend or repeal.

We as a human race have largely gotten past the point where everything we do is merely for survival. Some foolishness, inefficiency is allowed but irresponsibility can have awful consequences before you can even think about it. Some do stupid things and get away with them, and that is interpreted as authority to others to do likewise, with frequently disastrous consequences.

[urnoodle]

I hope the school administrators and grief counselors take a moment to point out to the students that if you don't screw yourself up by abusing drugs and breaking into houses, then crazy old men who are otherwise not hurting anybody won't have a chance to over zealously defend their homes.

If only it worked that way.

"Scared straight" programs can work with some kids. When I was in high school they took us on a tour of Cook County jail. This was a bad place. You could smell it from the parking lot. Years later I realized that the inmates that we encountered probably were trustys who were stationed to do exactly what they did, which was scare the stuffing out of us. One of them stuck his well-muscled arm between the bars and said something like, "Yum, fresh meat."

Also those wrecked cars and ghost plays might deter some kids from drinking and driving.

However, some don't learn by example, and some are removed from the gene pool. It's sad. It really is. Probably a dozen living people will not be the same after this incident, for the rest of their lives.

- Jim

Speaking of examples, When I was a freshman in high school there was a horrible accident cause by a student driver losing control at a speed of over 180mph while being over the legal BAC limit. The accident involved 8 popular students in my high school. All survived survived but none should have. Their injuries were extensive. To send all students a message to all students about the consequences of drinking and driving, the school board had the car placed on the lawn in front of the school entry doors. The car still had all the blood, ripped flesh, brain matter and hair all over it from all 8 students. The principal made each one of us walk up to the car and look at it for 10 min. If a student turned his/her head away too early the principal and teachers pushed it back. Suffice it to say, there were no more alcohol related accidents until after I graduated. I myself have never driven under the influence of anything stronger than a diet coke and I never will. If the car had been cleaned up, I don't know that it would have had the same impact.
It's ugly to say but maybe bringing gang bangers and students with behavioral problems into that basement to see the consequences those actions might have an impact. Talking about it just doesn't seem to work.

[McKnife]

8 people? 180mph? Brain-matter on car, but all survived?

I don't mean to offend, but all of that sounds a little sketchy.

Can you tell us more?