Road Rage Shooting in Houston

[tomtexan]

Not one person here on this forum has any idea what happened prior to them arriving at the gas station parking lot after their vehicles made contact. He could have been throwing her the finger and cussing her beforehand and at that point she might have become frightened by his actions. She might have already been in a state of high alert before he even got out of his truck. We may never know.

[barstoolguru]

Ables was shot to death, investigators say by Crystal Scott following a minor accident that spilled over into a gas station parking lot on Monday near FM 1960 and Perry Road. Scott, 23, told deputies she and Ables had been cutting each other off. After they hit and both pulled in to the gas station, Scott said Ables walked up to her car yelling and beating on her window. She claims he grabbed for her door, and that fearing for her life, she grabbed her gun and opened fire.

Now correct me if I am wrong but the law says you can't claim self-defense if you instigate or antagonize another

PC §9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity,

She did both so how is she not wrong? the first news article made it sound like he was trying to run her down "after" the accident but her claims of him "brake stabbing" her was before resulting in a fender bender (sounds like it)

[VMI77]

No, he lost his life because he lost control of himself and threatened a young mother. And wow.....for some reason drove off???? I hope you're not married and you don't have any daughters. She did exactly what a woman in that situation....hit by a truck with two men....is supposed to do: go to a public place. So, she should drive off from a public place while two guys in a truck chase her and try to run her down? I just hope if you do have a wife and daughter they're getting better advice from someone else because they're sure not getting it from you.

"Two white guys"... looked Mexican to me so let’s switch it, if it was a white driver and a black man beating on the window everyone would have said is was racially motivated. I love the part "they were trying to run her down? She drove off from an accident she caused. Maybe they were trying to get her to stop! His poor reactions do not justify hers. This is a quote from the 2nd article:

The 23-year-old woman behind the wheel of a silver sedan told them the young man walked up to her car and was yelling and beating on her window. He grabbed for her door and she grabbed her gun and fired.

no entry was ever made, she over-reacted because she HAD a gun. How would she have done it different if she didn’t have a gun; drove off again, maybe hit the horn and draw attention or her panic button on her key fob? After all she was in a gas station with other around; that was the whole point of driving there in the first place wasn’t it? and if I had a SON and he was shot down like this I would be mad

I think you've got race on the brain....maybe it is coloring your perception of events. No where in my response did I mention the race of the guys in the truck, because I have no idea what race they were. READ IT AGAIN: while and white are two different words that mean two different things. You really have to twist both grammar and spelling to get "two white guys" out of what I wrote. Yesterday another poster said the guy who got shot was Caucasian, but even if that's correct, I still wouldn't know the race of the passenger. You've obviously got something against the woman in this case and you seem to be focused on race, so I wonder what it could be?

And if your son got shot in the same circumstances, you should be mad: at him, for acting like a fool and getting himself killed.

I think I'm done with you....you sound like some of the anti-gun liberals with your responses. And the "would have done it differently if she didn't have a gun" is not only a standard liberal whack job phrase, it's also quite ridiculous in the context of a forum about concealed carry.

[VMI77]

Ables was shot to death, investigators say by Crystal Scott following a minor accident that spilled over into a gas station parking lot on Monday near FM 1960 and Perry Road. Scott, 23, told deputies she and Ables had been cutting each other off. After they hit and both pulled in to the gas station, Scott said Ables walked up to her car yelling and beating on her window. She claims he grabbed for her door, and that fearing for her life, she grabbed her gun and opened fire.

Now correct me if I am wrong but the law says you can't claim self-defense if you instigate or antagonize another

PC §9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity,

she did both so how is she not wrong ?

What you need to do is call the police officers who didn't arrest her and point out your superior knowledge of the law and their error in failing to charge her.

[Keith B]

Drop the attacks now or the thread will be locked. If you can't debate in a civil manner, then don't debate.

[barstoolguru]

No, he lost his life because he lost control of himself and threatened a young mother. And wow.....for some reason drove off???? I hope you're not married and you don't have any daughters. She did exactly what a woman in that situation....hit by a truck with two men....is supposed to do: go to a public place. So, she should drive off from a public place [b]while two guys in a truck chase her and try to run her down?[/b] I just hope if you do have a wife and daughter they're getting better advice from someone else because they're sure not getting it from you.

"Two white guys"... looked Mexican to me so let’s switch it, if it was a white driver and a black man beating on the window everyone would have said is was racially motivated. I love the part "they were trying to run her down? She drove off from an accident she caused. Maybe they were trying to get her to stop! His poor reactions do not justify hers. This is a quote from the 2nd article:

The 23-year-old woman behind the wheel of a silver sedan told them the young man walked up to her car and was yelling and beating on her window. He grabbed for her door and she grabbed her gun and fired.

no entry was ever made, she over-reacted because she HAD a gun. How would she have done it different if she didn’t have a gun; drove off again, maybe hit the horn and draw attention or her panic button on her key fob? After all she was in a gas station with other around; that was the whole point of driving there in the first place wasn’t it? and if I had a SON and he was shot down like this I would be mad

I think you've got race on the brain....maybe it is coloring your perception of events. No where in my response did I mention the race of the guys in the truck, because I have no idea what race they were. READ IT AGAIN: while and white are two different words that mean two different things. You really have to twist both grammar and spelling to get "two white guys" out of what I wrote. Yesterday another poster said the guy who got shot was Caucasian, but even if that's correct, I still wouldn't know the race of the passenger. You've obviously got something against the woman in this case and you seem to be focused on race, so I wonder what it could be?



And if your son got shot in the same circumstances, you should be mad: at him, for acting like a fool and getting himself killed.

I think I'm done with you....you sound like some of the anti-gun liberals with your responses. And the "would have done it differently if she didn't have a gun" is not only a standard liberal whack job phrase, it's also quite ridiculous in the context of a forum about concealed carry.[/quote

Sorry; I need to increase the font size, so I will retract one part of my statement and no one would have gottin killed if she didn't over react. she was wrong by law read PC 9.31 2&3

[VMI77]

Probably a difference of 'perspective'. Just one POSSIBLE scenario of how it went down.

She hits the guys truck. Nothing major, just a fender bender. But she continues until she finds a 'safe' place to stop. From his point of view, he sees someone who has just smashed his vehicle and continued to drive. She pulls in to the gas station. He gets out to talk to her. He is still apprehensive that she's going to fled. She calls 911. He walks up, expecting her to get out and have insurance available. He sees a woman still in the car talking on the phone. He knocks on her window. She continues to talk on the phone and doesn't get out. She sees two men (apparently worked in the oil field, so he may have been dressed in some grimy coveralls or some such), with one knocking on her window. Doubtful he's in "Mr. Rogers" mode at this point. I'm sure he's agitated at the sight of a woman who has just crunched his vehicle and now appears (to him) indifferent toward the matter. He knocks on her window, she doesn't respond. He knocks harder. She is now afraid, and it all goes downhill from there.

As far as why she didn't just drive away, this was on 1960. At times it's a parking lot. So she may not have been able to get far. And her car vs a pickup truck wouldn't be a good matchup.

The pictures I've seen don't appear to show a window that's been 'shattered'. I guess when the stores videotapes show up, we may know more.

The only problem I have with your scenario is the hint of a suggestion that his reaction to her is reasonable. It simply isn't. If an adult man in this day and age is so clueless he doesn't understand the reasons for a woman to act the way you propose in your scenario, then he is dangerously stupid. And aside from the issue of a lone female dealing with two men, and aside from bump and rob events, chasing after someone then pounding on their window is not a justified or intelligent reaction. I had a guy run into me in Austin and then take off.....I didn't chase after him....I wrote down his license plate number and filed a report with the police.

[VMI77]

No, he lost his life because he lost control of himself and threatened a young mother. And wow.....for some reason drove off???? I hope you're not married and you don't have any daughters. She did exactly what a woman in that situation....hit by a truck with two men....is supposed to do: go to a public place. So, she should drive off from a public place [b]while two guys in a truck chase her and try to run her down?[/b] I just hope if you do have a wife and daughter they're getting better advice from someone else because they're sure not getting it from you.

"Two white guys"... looked Mexican to me so let’s switch it, if it was a white driver and a black man beating on the window everyone would have said is was racially motivated. I love the part "they were trying to run her down? She drove off from an accident she caused. Maybe they were trying to get her to stop! His poor reactions do not justify hers. This is a quote from the 2nd article:

The 23-year-old woman behind the wheel of a silver sedan told them the young man walked up to her car and was yelling and beating on her window. He grabbed for her door and she grabbed her gun and fired.

no entry was ever made, she over-reacted because she HAD a gun. How would she have done it different if she didn’t have a gun; drove off again, maybe hit the horn and draw attention or her panic button on her key fob? After all she was in a gas station with other around; that was the whole point of driving there in the first place wasn’t it? and if I had a SON and he was shot down like this I would be mad

I think you've got race on the brain....maybe it is coloring your perception of events. No where in my response did I mention the race of the guys in the truck, because I have no idea what race they were. READ IT AGAIN: while and white are two different words that mean two different things. You really have to twist both grammar and spelling to get "two white guys" out of what I wrote. Yesterday another poster said the guy who got shot was Caucasian, but even if that's correct, I still wouldn't know the race of the passenger. You've obviously got something against the woman in this case and you seem to be focused on race, so I wonder what it could be?



And if your son got shot in the same circumstances, you should be mad: at him, for acting like a fool and getting himself killed.

I think I'm done with you....you sound like some of the anti-gun liberals with your responses. And the "would have done it differently if she didn't have a gun" is not only a standard liberal whack job phrase, it's also quite ridiculous in the context of a forum about concealed carry.[/quote

Sorry; I need to increase the font size, so I will retract one part of my statement and no one would have gottin killed if she didn't over react. she was wrong by law read PC 9.31 2&3

OK, one more time: HE wouldn't have gotten killed if HE hadn't overreacted.

[barstoolguru]

[.

The only problem I have with your scenario is the hint of a suggestion that his reaction to her is reasonable. It simply isn't. If an adult man in this day and age is so clueless he doesn't understand the reasons for a woman to act the way you propose in your scenario, then he is dangerously stupid. And aside from the issue of a lone female dealing with two men, and aside from bump and rob events, chasing after someone then pounding on their window is not a justified or intelligent reaction. I had a guy run into me in Austin and then take off.....I didn't chase after him....I wrote down his license plate number and filed a report with the police.

[/quote]

Go back and read the last article posted about the parents grieving and it adds a lot to what DID happen. They bumped and then PULLED into the gas station so the accident just accrued. She was out there doing the white line mumbo with him; She helped instigate it and then she claims self defense!!!

[i8godzilla]

One observation, it appears as if the women in the car called E911. I read no reports of the other diver or his passenger calling E911 prior to him getting out of the car. There may be a lesson in this. IDK.

[JALLEN]

no one finds it funny that her lawyer and pastor are at the ctime scene and doing all the talking for her

That's the way you would want it in her spot. I am not a criminal lawyer (they haven't caught any of MY clients yet!) but the last thing you want to be doing in that situation is giving interviews to the media hounds. In fact, my suggestion is that you say as little as possible, other than identifying yourself and generally cooperating, as possible until your lawyer shows up and you can get him/her up to speed.

Your statements are admissions, "can be used against you in a court of law" as the saying goes. The lawyer stating your version is not admissible, at least not here in CA. Let the lawyer give your version, in writing and edit it for the "final answer." The first liar never has a chance.

[AJHutton]

no one finds it funny that her lawyer and pastor are at the ctime scene and doing all the talking for her

That's the way you would want it in her spot. I am not a criminal lawyer (they haven't caught any of MY clients yet!) but the last thing you want to be doing in that situation is giving interviews to the media hounds. In fact, my suggestion is that you say as little as possible, other than identifying yourself and generally cooperating, as possible until your lawyer shows up and you can get him/her up to speed.

Your statements are admissions, "can be used against you in a court of law" as the saying goes. The lawyer stating your version is not admissible, at least not here in CA. Let the lawyer give your version, in writing and edit it for the "final answer." The first liar never has a chance.

IMO all CHLs should either have an attorney on retainer or know of one to call if you ever need to use your weapon - it just seems the prudent thing to do. You are granted a constitutional right to council anytime you're dealing with police, and it's wrong to assume that exercising those rights is somehow "funny(strange)" or admitting guilt.

barstoolguru - I am in agreement with you that it's terrible this man lost his life over a traffic accident but that might be where our agreement ends. And the young woman's life will never be the same as has to live with herself because of the actions she took. As for the rest, that's for the grand jury to decide and I'm sure they'll weigh ALL the evidence in the case. Pointing to individual statements from news reported on a website is hardly basis for black/white determinations of guilt or innocence, thank God.

--edited for clarity

[VMI77]

The only problem I have with your scenario is the hint of a suggestion that his reaction to her is reasonable. It simply isn't. If an adult man in this day and age is so clueless he doesn't understand the reasons for a woman to act the way you propose in your scenario, then he is dangerously stupid. And aside from the issue of a lone female dealing with two men, and aside from bump and rob events, chasing after someone then pounding on their window is not a justified or intelligent reaction. I had a guy run into me in Austin and then take off.....I didn't chase after him....I wrote down his license plate number and filed a report with the police.

Go back and read the last article posted about the parents grieving and it adds a lot to what DID happen. They bumped and then PULLED into the gas station so the accident just accrued. She was out there doing the white line mumbo with him; She helped instigate it and then she claims self defense!!!

Yeah, I'm sure the grieving parents will add a lot of objective comments. Based solely on the information in the media, which is all we know, she fled or ran away --whatever term you want to use-- to a public place, called 911, remained in her car, and did not threaten or attack the driver or passenger of the truck. The driver of the truck followed, chased her --again, whatever word you want to use-- got out of his truck in a rage and pounded on her window, thus threatening her. You can pretend otherwise all you want, but following a woman in a truck with two men and hitting on her window in a rage is a threat --it is INTENDED to intimidate, at a minimum. He was a "big man" because he was pounding on the window of a young woman, whom he no doubt did not fear in the least. You think he would have acted in the same way and pounded on the window of some 6'4" muscled up and tatted gang banger? If he did, then he'd do it looking for a fight, because anyone in his right mind knows that is what would happen. Pounding on this woman's window, whether he broke it or not, wasn't to hand her a bouquet of flowers --it was deliberate intimidation and had the sole intended purpose of forcing the woman to respond to him either by rolling down her window or exiting the car....both of which would have been stupid moves for her under the circumstances.

The police have a 911 recording, they took witness statements, and they watched a video of the incident. THEY LET HER GO WITHOUT ARRESTING HER. I don't know if you have it out for this particular woman, or you've got a chip on your shoulder about women in general. I don't really care either way; it doesn't change the reality, which is that a lone woman is vulnerable, very vulnerable, in a confrontation with one man, let alone the potential threat of two men. A man who either doesn't understand this, or doesn't care, and acts like a fool, as this guy apparently did, gets no special consideration for his ignorance or malice, which is, quite frankly, inexcusable. Not only did he have no business approaching a woman this way, his actions were pretty stupid under any circumstances, since he had no way of knowing what kind of person was in the vehicle he approached threateningly and pounded on. In the old days, he might have been beaten by one of the men nearby merely for his treatment of a woman. If I walked into a parking lot and found a man treating my wife like he did that young woman I'd be approaching with one hand on my gun.

Edited for clarity.

[anygunanywhere]

The only problem I have with your scenario is the hint of a suggestion that his reaction to her is reasonable. It simply isn't. If an adult man in this day and age is so clueless he doesn't understand the reasons for a woman to act the way you propose in your scenario, then he is dangerously stupid. And aside from the issue of a lone female dealing with two men, and aside from bump and rob events, chasing after someone then pounding on their window is not a justified or intelligent reaction. I had a guy run into me in Austin and then take off.....I didn't chase after him....I wrote down his license plate number and filed a report with the police.

Go back and read the last article posted about the parents grieving and it adds a lot to what DID happen. They bumped and then PULLED into the gas station so the accident just accrued. She was out there doing the white line mumbo with him; She helped instigate it and then she claims self defense!!!

Yeah, I'm sure the grieving parents will add a lot of objective comments. Based solely on the information in the media, which is all we know, she fled or ran away --whatever term you want to use-- to a public place, called 911, remained in her car, and did not threaten or attack the driver or passenger of the truck. The driver of the truck followed, chased her --again, whatever word you want to use-- got out of his truck in a rage and pounded on her window, thus threatening her. You can pretend otherwise all you want, but following a woman in a truck with two men and hitting on her window in a rage is a threat --it is INTENDED to intimidate, at a minimum. He was a "big man" because he was pounding on the window of a young woman, whom he no doubt did not fear in the least. You think he would have acted in the same way and pounded on the window of some 6'4" muscled up and tatted gang banger? If he did, then he'd do it looking for a fight, because anyone in his right mind knows that is what would happen. Pounding on this woman's window, whether he broke it or not, wasn't to hand her a bouquet of flowers --it was deliberate intimidation and had the sole intended purpose of forcing the woman to respond to him either by rolling down her window or exiting the car....both of which would have been stupid moves for her under the circumstances.

The police have a 911 recording, they took witness statements, and they watched a video of the incident. THEY LET HER GO WITHOUT ARRESTING HER. I don't know if you have it out for this particular woman, or you've got a chip on your shoulder about women in general. I don't really care either way; it doesn't change the reality, which is that a lone woman is vulnerable, very vulnerable, in a confrontation with one man, let alone the potential threat of two men. A man who either doesn't understand this, or doesn't care, and acts like a fool, as this guy apparently did, gets no special consideration for his ignorance or malice, which is, quite frankly, inexcusable. Not only did he have no business approaching a woman this way, his actions were pretty stupid under any circumstances, since he had no way of knowing what kind of person was in the vehicle he approached threateningly and pounded on. In the old days, he might have been beaten by one of the men nearby merely for his treatment of a woman. If I walked into a parking lot and found a man treating my wife like he did that young woman I'd be approaching with one hand on my gun.

Edited for clarity.

You have been studying TAM's posts and technique.

Nicely done!

If someone was doing that to my wife though I would probably have the gun drawn.

Anygunanywhere

[ffemt300]

She was a well-prepared woman - only 23, already had her CHL, her gun was at the ready, double-tapped
the attacker, what else can we compliment her on?

SIA

very much so.