Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

[stealthfightrf17]

Recived this e-mail from a friend

"Friday, July 20th was intended to be an evening of excitement and entertainment. The first showing of the last of the Batman trilogy starring Christian Bale was scheduled to run shortly after midnight. Instead of excitement and entertainment, movie-goers were subjected to terror and bloodshed. The Aurora community was wounded and traumatized; an entire nation was shocked and sickened. Like fingers closing around a smashed thumb, Americans throughout the country closed ranks to support and comfort a victimized Colorado community.
However, many responded with a knee-jerk reaction and pre-packaged panaceas. Predictably, cries to remove the evil of firearms from the citizenry sprang up like an old, worn jack-in-the-box. This time, the fact that the suspect had a large ammunition drum feeding his AR-15 revived cries to ban high-capacity magazines. Heated arguments broke out well before the first of the murder victims had been removed from the theater.
One of the first to call for banning “assault weapons” and expanded magazines was Senator Dianne Feinstein (D) of California. Senator Feinstein is credited with crafting the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (popularly known as the Assault Weapons Ban). Provisions of this law included strict restrictions on the number of rounds that a weapon magazine could hold. Feinstein argued that had her legislation been renewed in 2004 rather than allowed to expire, that this massacre could have been averted.
Studies from the National Institute of Justice contradict the Senator’s claims. According to a 1999 report on the effectiveness of the legislation…
“The ban has failed to reduce the average number of victims per gun murder incident or multiple gunshot wound victims.”
Conversely, I would argue the following:
- The presence of a 100-round drum for the AR-15 most likely SAVED LIVES. Oversized, third-party magazines are notorious for their poor construction and performance. The shooter in this case was unable to clear a jam on his primary weapon.
- Had the shooter used a 20 or 30-round MIL-SPEC magazine, the rifle most likely would not have jammed. Changing magazines is a very simple affair and dropping an empty instead of retaining it would have cut the time to reload in half.
- The real target for the AR-15 was not the movie-goers. It was law enforcement, whose ballistic vests would have failed to stop the high-powered .223 Remington projectile. That is why the shooter meekly gave up when approached by an officer.
Others from the gun-rights lobby have argued that had there been one lawfully armed citizen, the gunman would have been neutralized in short order. In most cases, I agree. In this case, I could not disagree more. The suspect was wearing substantial body armor, designed to stop handgun ammunition. A CCW holder could have difficulty recognizing the capabilities of his or her opponent and accurately hitting a small area of vulnerability.
The one person on TV who made sense was a former Navy Seal who said that had one person had a tactical flashlight, 3 – 5 seconds could have been purchased by blinding the suspect. Ruger sells a 500 lumen tactical light that lists for $59.95. At $15 per second of “get out of Dodge” time, I think I’ll get one.
So, what is the real solution? I used to tell my sailors that properly defining the problem provides at least 50% of the solution. We need to better define the problem if we are going to address it. This is what I think…
- Both this shooter and Jerrod Laughner in Arizona displayed symptoms of a mental disorder.
- Schizophrenia most often strikes men in their early 20’s, the same age group as the Aurora and Arizona suspects.
- The number of beds for in-patient care of psychiatric patients has dwindled to a fraction of what it was before Geraldo Rivera’s 1972 expose` on Willowbrook in Staten Island, NY.
- It is much more difficult to commit a person to a mental hospital since legislation addressing the abuse, neglect, and human rights of mental health patients.
The pendulum has swung far away from Willowbrook. There must be a mid-point between 1972 and where we are now. In other words, the country needs to fix health care, including mental health, in both the medical and legislative arenas. Parents of adult children must not be forced to wring their hands and pray for the best while a ticking time bomb is walking the streets. At the same time, abuse of civil commitment must not be allowed.
Others have written about the 5 Stages of the Active Shooter. That’s great. It reminds me of the Kübler-Ross model of the 5 Stages of Grief. The difference is that Kübler-Ross provides insight of what should be done for the grieving party and by whom. To my knowledge, the 5 Stages of the Active shooter model confines itself to one discipline – law enforcement. This is the hole in the fence… who does what to support law enforcement interdiction and how.
For one thing, we need mental health professionals working on Active Shooter studies willing to integrate their work with law enforcement, institutions of higher learning, and legislators. Establish a peer-reviewed model. Develop methodologies of intervention. Work with law enforcement at the beginning and not as an afterthought. Finally, educate the public; Joe Citizen is a well-known force-multiplier.
What constitutes an assault rifle and whether or not they are/can be used for hunting or applied to legitimate, lawful activity can be discussed in a separate venue. In the meantime, let’s work together to corral the crazies in a way that works and respects the rights of citizens and thereby preventing another Aurora or Columbine.
Bruce Bremer, MBA is LET’s technology contributor. Bruce retired from the Submarine Service after 21 years of in-depth experience with complex electronic technology. Since then, he has been involved in fleet modernization and military research analysis. He teaches electronics and alternative energy at a Virginia college. Besides his MBA, Bruce earned a Bachelor of Science degree in computer networking. He has been volunteering in public safety for many years"

[philip964]

James Holmes' psychiatrist spoke to University police about him weeks before shooting. Broke patient confidentiality, she was that concerned.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-p ... CB0m_WBpyc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Matto79]

My sixteen year old just mentioned he wouldn't be surprised to find out this was staged/orchestrated by the anti libs to help promote their gun control agenda. Interesting thought considering what we've learned about "fast and furious" and what the UN is up to. Interesting timing to say the least. Especially considering the supposed links to the Tea Party.

Not trying to jump to conclusions or promote a vast conspiracy theory based speculation. Just some food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what Obama has to say at 10 this morning.

That's an unfortunate and rather sick statement to make in regards to this tragedy. I hope you corrected you child regarding this.

I'm going to give you credit and say you probably think the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists, who say 9/11 was orchestrated by the Bush Administration to allow them to get the Patriot Act passed and be able to do everything they want by bypassing due process and our 4th amendment rights, along with starting a war with Irag and taking revenge against Saddam Hussain, are stupid and ludicrous claims. So, if you believe these people are wrong for exploiting this tragedy to advance their anti-Bush rhetoric (I'm assuming), then you have to shoot this claim down about the Colorado shooting as well. Free speech is great, but that's a terrible statement to not have corrected regarding the Colorado shooting.

[Charles L. Cotton]

My sixteen year old just mentioned he wouldn't be surprised to find out this was staged/orchestrated by the anti libs to help promote their gun control agenda. Interesting thought considering what we've learned about "fast and furious" and what the UN is up to. Interesting timing to say the least. Especially considering the supposed links to the Tea Party.

Not trying to jump to conclusions or promote a vast conspiracy theory based speculation. Just some food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what Obama has to say at 10 this morning.

That's an unfortunate and rather sick statement to make in regards to this tragedy. I hope you corrected you child regarding this.

I'm going to give you credit and say you probably think the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists, who say 9/11 was orchestrated by the Bush Administration to allow them to get the Patriot Act passed and be able to do everything they want by bypassing due process and our 4th amendment rights, along with starting a war with Irag and taking revenge against Saddam Hussain, are stupid and ludicrous claims. So, if you believe these people are wrong for exploiting this tragedy to advance their anti-Bush rhetoric (I'm assuming), then you have to shoot this claim down about the Colorado shooting as well. Free speech is great, but that's a terrible statement to not have corrected regarding the Colorado shooting.

I couldn't decide quite how to respond to this post. I considered deleting it, sending you a PM, and other things.

I don't care about the content, but I care a lot about the way you addressed a Member's 16 year old daughter. If you can't be more reserved and statesmanlike, then don't post.

BTW, there nothing "unfortunate and sick" about her statement. She was just sharing her thoughts. I am thrilled that a 16 year old kid is thinking about gun control and politics. Your holier-than-thou response however, is more than a little irritating.

Chas.

[VMI77]

My sixteen year old just mentioned he wouldn't be surprised to find out this was staged/orchestrated by the anti libs to help promote their gun control agenda. Interesting thought considering what we've learned about "fast and furious" and what the UN is up to. Interesting timing to say the least. Especially considering the supposed links to the Tea Party.

Not trying to jump to conclusions or promote a vast conspiracy theory based speculation. Just some food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what Obama has to say at 10 this morning.

That's an unfortunate and rather sick statement to make in regards to this tragedy. I hope you corrected you child regarding this.

I'm going to give you credit and say you probably think the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists, who say 9/11 was orchestrated by the Bush Administration to allow them to get the Patriot Act passed and be able to do everything they want by bypassing due process and our 4th amendment rights, along with starting a war with Irag and taking revenge against Saddam Hussain, are stupid and ludicrous claims. So, if you believe these people are wrong for exploiting this tragedy to advance their anti-Bush rhetoric (I'm assuming), then you have to shoot this claim down about the Colorado shooting as well. Free speech is great, but that's a terrible statement to not have corrected regarding the Colorado shooting.

Well, for one thing, Bush isn't president. We have a criminal president with a criminal Attorney General. The girl is actually using her brain, rather than just making comforting assumptions, as whatever happened in Colorado, the country is indeed on a path of lawlessness, and has a government full of rampant corruption, so for thinking people, the possibility of a false flag operation can't be dismissed out of hand. There is absolutely nothing sick about her statement. What is, however, rather sick, is suggesting that someone who doesn't make the same warm and cozy assumptions you do is sick.

[ajwakeboarder]

My sixteen year old just mentioned he wouldn't be surprised to find out this was staged/orchestrated by the anti libs to help promote their gun control agenda. Interesting thought considering what we've learned about "fast and furious" and what the UN is up to. Interesting timing to say the least. Especially considering the supposed links to the Tea Party.

Not trying to jump to conclusions or promote a vast conspiracy theory based speculation. Just some food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what Obama has to say at 10 this morning.

That's an unfortunate and rather sick statement to make in regards to this tragedy. I hope you corrected you child regarding this.

I'm going to give you credit and say you probably think the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists, who say 9/11 was orchestrated by the Bush Administration to allow them to get the Patriot Act passed and be able to do everything they want by bypassing due process and our 4th amendment rights, along with starting a war with Irag and taking revenge against Saddam Hussain, are stupid and ludicrous claims. So, if you believe these people are wrong for exploiting this tragedy to advance their anti-Bush rhetoric (I'm assuming), then you have to shoot this claim down about the Colorado shooting as well. Free speech is great, but that's a terrible statement to not have corrected regarding the Colorado shooting.

I'm sorry, that is out of line. Everyone is encouraged to think freely. Otherwise we become sheep. Is it so hard to believe that a government would commit an act of terrorism against it own citizens? It's been done before. Do I think the Obama Administration was behind the shooting? No. Would I put it past them? Not really, they have already shown a blatant disregard for American lives with Fast and Furious. I also don't believe the 9/11 conspiracy. I'll debate with people over it, but i won't stoop to calling them names and questioning their sanity. People are entitled to believe what they want whether you disagree or not. It's still supposed to be a free country.

[bizarrenormality]

My sixteen year old just mentioned he wouldn't be surprised to find out this was staged/orchestrated by the anti libs to help promote their gun control agenda. Interesting thought considering what we've learned about "fast and furious" and what the UN is up to. Interesting timing to say the least. Especially considering the supposed links to the Tea Party.

Not trying to jump to conclusions or promote a vast conspiracy theory based speculation. Just some food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what Obama has to say at 10 this morning.

That's an unfortunate and rather sick statement to make in regards to this tragedy. I hope you corrected you child regarding this.

The body count of innocents killed because of Fast & Furious is much greater than this and the Sikh temple murders combined. Neither Eric Holder nor his dear leader have shown any remorse for their part in those murders. Instead, they hid behind executive privilege to stymie truth, justice, and the American way.

It would be premature to "correct" the child before Holder apologizes to the families of the Mexicans he helped murder and falls on his sword.

[03Lightningrocks]

It would not surprise me one bit to find out Obama and his Chicago thug cronies were behind both shootings. He is more than capable of the most evil of deads. I think the kid has a point. Quite frankly, I could make a case for Obama being the anti Christ.

I don't actually think he is behind it, but I believe with everything I have in me that Obama would have no problem doing such a thing to advance his agenda. His kind figure the end justifies the means. No matter how horrific the means.

I would tell the kid they must apologize, but only if Obama actually produces his grades from the college he claims he graduated from. You know, the same college nobody seems to remember seeing him at.

[Scott in Houston]

Quite frankly, I could make a case for Obama being the anti Christ.

I don't actually think he is behind it, but I believe with everything I have in me that Obama would have no problem doing such a thing to advance his agenda. His kind figure the end justifies the means. No matter how horrific the means.

My avatar... LOL

It's meant to be a joke since its "66...5"

[philip964]

Well how many of you all ready suspected this would happen.

http://www.examiner.com/article/colorad ... tims-funds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, a charity was set up to collect donations for all the victims of the Aurora Movie Theater Shooting. Yeah lots of people sent money, 5 million dollars in fact. The first gifts from this charity were to 100 non profits in the Denver area. So the victims went public and so another $375,000 was sent to a specific victim's aid charity. They then have given $5000 to a number of shooting victims.

No victims or their families are even on the board of the charity that was set up.

[Heartland Patriot]

I posted this somewhere before...I also don't believe the current administration "orchestrated" the Colorado shooting. After F&F, I do believe the CAPABLE of such a scheme. However, the secondary villains of this evil act are the leftist politicians, pundits and press who RUSHED to take advantage of the situation.

[VMI77]

I posted this somewhere before...I also don't believe the current administration "orchestrated" the Colorado shooting. After F&F, I do believe the CAPABLE of such a scheme. However, the secondary villains of this evil act are the leftist politicians, pundits and press who RUSHED to take advantage of the situation.

I don't think they did either....not because they're not capable of it, but because in that kind of op, the shooter is killed to tie up any loose ends.

[mojo84]

This is awesome! I haven't been keeping up with this thread lately. It's great to see that my 16 year old son is able to get so many "adults" thinking and discussing such important issues. He is highly intelligent, moral and in tune with what is going on in the world. I would say more so than most other kids his age.

For the record, I did not correct him. We used his thoughts and questions as an opportunity to discuss, learn and grow. It was a very interesting discussion. It's amazing how he is able to discuss his thoughts and questions with so much more maturity than some adults.

By the way, he never said Obama was behind it even though we discussed the possibility of someone in his administration, a liberal anti-gun organization or a nutjob that had a gun control agenda could have carried out or facilitated this tragic event in order to bring gun control to the forefront before the election. He is also the one that came up with the question regarding the timing of the event being somewhat interesting considering the pending vote on the UN Small Arms Treaty. That was a very thought provoking idea that I hadn't thought of and appreciated him bringing it to my attention. Bottomline, he made no specific accusations that anyone other than an individual nut job was behind this tragedy. He just brought up some interesting potential "motives" and possible conspirators that could have been involved.

Thanks Mr. Cotton and others for responding on my son's behalf. It is much appreciated.

[philip964]

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/07/16/t ... nd-guilty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/07/16/t ... nd-guilty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Found guilty

[The Annoyed Man]

Someone started shooting during a screening of the Dark Night Rises in Aurora CO.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... eater?lite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Linke is a dead end.