Knocking on the door can be dangerous in N. Houston

[texanron]

Its a good idea to stay on Hwy59 when going through this part of town.

[boba]

Wow! They totally changed the original story without a trace. It makes me realize I can't trust anything ABC says, even if it's in writing.

[C-dub]

Wow! They totally changed the original story without a trace. It makes me realize I can't trust anything ABC says, even if it's in writing.

Yup. The article has changed and therefore I must change my opinion that the home owner will be in trouble. If the two guys were "beating" on the door they didn't deserve to be shot at, but I can certainly understand the home owner's reaction.

[Excaliber]

Wow! They totally changed the original story without a trace. It makes me realize I can't trust anything ABC says, even if it's in writing.

Yup. The article has changed and therefore I must change my opinion that the home owner will be in trouble. If the two guys were "beating" on the door they didn't deserve to be shot at, but I can certainly understand the home owner's reaction.

Careful here.

What one man may see as "beating on a door" will be seen by another as an "attempt to break down the door."

Either or both conclusions may be reasonable under the circumstances. We don't yet have enough reliable detail to be able to arrive at a valid conclusion in this case.

From inside, you observe action and infer intent, and the judgment of a reasonable man must be arrived at from the information at hand.

This is not an open and shut case either way from the information we have so far.

[baldeagle]

Careful here.

What one man may see as "beating on a door" will be seen by another as an "attempt to break down the door."

Either or both conclusions may be reasonable under the circumstances. We don't yet have enough reliable detail to be able to arrive at a valid conclusion in this case.

From inside, you observe action and infer intent, and the judgment of a reasonable man must be arrived at from the information at hand.

This is not an open and shut case either way from the information we have so far.

True, but on the other hand, there's a world of difference between two men "knocking" on a door and two men trying to "enter the home" by "beating and kicking" on the door. If the second rendition is true, the first was clearly misleading.

[VoiceofReason]

On the basis of the very few facts presented, I do not see nearly enough information to come to any valid good shoot / bad shoot conclusion at this point.

However, I do see several things at work here that are worth noting:

1. During the first couple of minutes after being startled out of bed by excited persons pounding on the front door most folks are not at the top of their game in the area of judgment.

2. People who have not previously managed a lot of potentially dangerous situations, some of which turned out to be really dangerous and others which turned out to be something else entirely, tend to focus on the "this is it - the attack I've always feared" conclusion to the exclusion of other possibilities. Once started down this track, observations which may have multiple potential interpretations are only seen through this lens.

3. Folks who haven't done a lot of thinking situations through (like the very valuable activity that goes on in this Forum constantly) don't have a plan they can fall back on and execute. Instead they act impulsively - and often unwisely.

This combination is a recipe for tragedy.

I agree 100%. I was stating what I would do under the circumstances given in the article and I still stand by that.

I would take cover (as much as possible) call or have my wife call 911 and yell at them “I have called the police”. Even if they were kicking at the door, I would not have shot through the door until it started to come open.

Other people would have reacted differently. I cannot say when someone else would believe they were in imminent danger. We have only the information given by the media but one of the best things about this forum is the discussion of scenarios such as this, so that if any of us are faced with a shoot / don’t shoot situation, hopefully we will make the best decision.

Note: If I did have to shoot, I am afraid that with my 12Ga. and 3”mag 000 buck, neither one would have survived.

[Excaliber]

On the basis of the very few facts presented, I do not see nearly enough information to come to any valid good shoot / bad shoot conclusion at this point.

However, I do see several things at work here that are worth noting:

1. During the first couple of minutes after being startled out of bed by excited persons pounding on the front door most folks are not at the top of their game in the area of judgment.

2. People who have not previously managed a lot of potentially dangerous situations, some of which turned out to be really dangerous and others which turned out to be something else entirely, tend to focus on the "this is it - the attack I've always feared" conclusion to the exclusion of other possibilities. Once started down this track, observations which may have multiple potential interpretations are only seen through this lens.

3. Folks who haven't done a lot of thinking situations through (like the very valuable activity that goes on in this Forum constantly) don't have a plan they can fall back on and execute. Instead they act impulsively - and often unwisely.

This combination is a recipe for tragedy.

I agree 100%. I was stating what I would do under the circumstances given in the article and I still stand by that.

I would take cover (as much as possible) call or have my wife call 911 and yell at them “I have called the police”. Even if they were kicking at the door, I would not have shot through the door until it started to come open.

Other people would have reacted differently. I cannot say when someone else would believe they were in imminent danger. We have only the information given by the media but one of the best things about this forum is the discussion of scenarios such as this, so that if any of us are faced with a shoot / don’t shoot situation, hopefully we will make the best decision.

Note: If I did have to shoot, I am afraid that with my 12Ga. and 3”mag 000 buck, neither one would have survived.

That's an occupational hazard in the home invasion business.