Bad Experience at Top Gun - Houston

[rusty86]

I have been going to Top Gun for a while, and putting up with their ridiculous prices for range times because it is convenient for me and it has AC. However, I do not believe I will be going back after my last experience there.

I was shooting my .40 S&W PX4 and also a .45 1911 one day when my .40 had a "squib" round. It sort of popped (instead of a loud BANG) and it wouldn't chamber the next round all the way in. I field-stripped it and realized that the slug of the squib was lodged in the barrel about 3/4" from the chamber (which is why it wouldn't chamber the next all the way in). I had no prior experience with a squib so I was unsure of what had happened and why.

I took the barrel into the store and asked the guys working behind the counter if they had seen something like this before. They got a small punch and a hammer and tried to hit the slug out of the barrel (trying to hit it back out the way it came, which is the way to do it in case anybody ever runs into this problem). They couldn't get it but then proceeded to tell me I had shot a .45 bullet and that's why it was stuck. I told them that was feasible but highly unlikely due to the fact that I know what I'm doing and I'm pretty attentive. However, they were convinced and told me that's definitely what happened. We shined a flashlight down the barrel and I pointed out that the slug had a flat nose as opposed to a rounded nose like a .45 would have. They claimed that was from when they tried to hit the slug out with the punch. I then told them that my clip wouldn't load a .45 (which I checked even though I suspected it wouldn't) and even if it would, there is no way ANY .40 would chamber a .45. They didn't really have a good answer for that but were still convinced.

I walk away to go tell my friend I'm ready to go when he is and they think I have left. When I come back into the store, I hear them talking to their buddies about how some guy was shooting both .40's and .45's and he loaded a .45 in his gun and now it's stuck and he messed his gun up but he claims he didn't do it. They don't even see me standing right there so I again tell them that's not what happened and I leave shortly after.

Between the knowledge of the guys working that day, their conviction in their flawed theory, them talking about me after I "leave", and the pure arrogance that they had when trying to convince me that I had shot a .45 out of my gun, I was not happy. Unfortunately, that is the last straw for Top Gun for me and I will be taking my business elsewhere. That experience shows their ignorance and level of professionalism. It is still the most convenient range for me but I won't be putting up with that out of principal.

By the way, I got the round out at home using a punch and hammer. Sure enough it was a .40 S&W. After internet research, I decided it was a "squib". I sent in the remainder of the ammo and Remington is replacing the entire box. I have shot my gun since then and it is A-OK.

[esxmarkc]

I walk away to go tell my friend I'm ready to go when he is and they think I have left. When I come back into the store, I hear them talking to their buddies about how some guy was shooting both .40's and .45's and he loaded a .45 in his gun and now it's stuck and he messed his gun up but he claims he didn't do it. They don't even see me standing right there so I again tell them that's not what happened and I leave shortly after.

Complete morons. You should have handed them your .40cal gun and a .45cal round and offered them $1000 challenge if they could chamber it - and if they couldn't they would have to resign instantly to never work in the firearms business ever again even unless it is as a live target.

ETA: If you could drive a .45 into your .40 and set it off you would be picking pieces of pistol out of every nook and cranny of your body for a long time.

[rusty86]

Totally agree. How on earth are they going to fit a (big) .45acp cartridge into a (little) .40S&W chamber - change the laws of physics?

I'd be terrified to shoot any .40 S&W that could chamber a .45 - there'd have to be a *slight* problem with the clearances...

[Munk]

(ok, ok... sometimes the little boy gets loose)

That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. I snorted a bubble.

[gigag04]

Make the drive to Shiloh. They were great a few years back and were started by a forum member.

[texanron]

That is messed up Rusty. I wonder why they were so dead set in their belief that you chambered a .45 round instead of a .40. How much differently would this thread look if the guys behind the counter had dislodged the slug at no charge and commented that sometimes ammo manufactures have squib loads slip through.

[Scott in Houston]

That is messed up Rusty. I wonder why they were so dead set in their belief that you chambered a .45 round instead of a .40. How much differently would this thread look if the guys behind the counter had dislodged the slug at no charge and commented that sometimes ammo manufactures have squib loads slip through.

Agreed. I don't get the gun shop arrogance sometimes.
I know they aren't paid very well, so maybe they're bitter? But many of them do it just for fun, and not their primary source of income... /tangent

Regardless, it amazes me.
And this attitude comes from the source of some of the dumbest comments I've ever heard from people regarding firearms. Even Mr. Pruitt (sp?) who I really like and respect for his attitude regarding the 2A and our rights, said one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. It seems to be a trait that when you get behind the counter, you lose your mind. lol

[esxmarkc]

I'm going to have to retract my original assessment.

My calculations show that if you heat the .40 caliber chamber to 2210.7 °F and chill the .45 shell down to -449.7 °F it would drop right in. Of course you would have to fire it within 17 milliseconds as they head toward thermal equilibrium and undergo some nasty distortion.

Now that I think of it that is exactly what you did. Had you fired it within 17 milliseconds, the firing pin strike would have likely shattered the shell to bits. You waited too long and the shell and chamber distorted as they reached thermal equilibrium.

I stand corrected. Those guys are true physicists. So wise guy, you found a way to use up your .45 rounds in your .40cal. Fess up and tell us where you get your liquid helium.

[Jusster]

Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of going to Top Gun, but now I think I’ll just stick to Memorial Shooting Range. The half price range fee’s on Wednesday’s aren’t too bad either (when I can make it )

Jusster

[Thomas]

I'm going to have to retract my original assessment.

My calculations show that if you heat the .40 caliber chamber to 2210.7 °F and chill the .45 shell down to -449.7 °F it would drop right in. Of course you would have to fire it within 17 milliseconds as they head toward thermal equilibrium and undergo some nasty distortion.

Now that I think of it that is exactly what you did. Had you fired it within 17 milliseconds, the firing pin strike would have likely shattered the shell to bits. You waited too long and the shell and chamber distorted as they reached thermal equilibrium.

I stand corrected. Those guys are true physicists. So wise guy, you found a way to use up your .45 rounds in your .40cal. Fess up and tell us where you get your liquid helium.

Did you really calculate it? It is calculable. I could do it, but I don't really feel like dragging out my college textbooks.

[Scott in Houston]

Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of going to Top Gun, but now I think I’ll just stick to Memorial Shooting Range. The half price range fee’s on Wednesday’s aren’t too bad either (when I can make it )

Jusster

Memorial just went through a large personnel change, and the staff there now is the opposite of arrogant in my opinion. I get the impression that they still feel "new" and a little unsure of themselves at times, and as a result, they're very nice.

[rusty86]

Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of going to Top Gun, but now I think I’ll just stick to Memorial Shooting Range. The half price range fee’s on Wednesday’s aren’t too bad either (when I can make it )

Jusster

That's where I was planning on trying next time I go. I wasn't aware of the half-priced Wednesday special so thanks for that info.

[Scott in Houston]

Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of going to Top Gun, but now I think I’ll just stick to Memorial Shooting Range. The half price range fee’s on Wednesday’s aren’t too bad either (when I can make it )

Jusster

That's where I was planning on trying next time I go. I wasn't aware of the half-priced Wednesday special so thanks for that info.

I'll be there tomorrow around lunch time. It's all day Wednesday. For those of you who use Twitter, you can follow them on Twitter at @memorialshoot. You can see when they have deals, sales, etc.

[fulano]

So, about the squib round. What was the manufacturer?