I have to admit, I'm pretty pleased with how active this post has been, and it will take me a little more time that usual to reply to it all.
First, I would like to commend glockstero on his lengthy post. You took the time to find all of that and more time to type it out. I appreciate (honestly) the way you care enough to list everything you did in regards to the President. A lot of those topics you brought up, you are 100% correct about. I would like to add, and this doesn't excuse the President's actions, but every President or candidate for President breaks campaign promises made to us. They all do, and I'm sure like research will render similar results that you found with President Obama to be the same with President W. Bush, Clinton, H.W. Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford (even though he technically never ran or was voted in as President), Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, and so on. Like I said, it does not excuse the President's remarks and promises he made that ending up not happening, changing, and so on.
Really quick, I want to apologize for mistating that Obama was an Illinois State House Rep, when we was an Illinois State Senator. Honest mistake on my part.
My ignorant statement about not caring about the AWB because I already have mine, well, those were the wrong words to use, and I'm not beneath apologizing for that. So, I'm sorry. Yet, its ok for other types of ignorate statements to be made, and leave them alone? When I wrote that the other night, I was kinda riled up, and I sort of wanted to have that statement get some criticism, only to fire back with arguments about why my ignorance is being attacked, but not others. Still, I realize it didn't get conveyed the way I wanted, so again, sorry for that. I realize I'm probably a target now being my political leaning don't line up with most forum members here, but hey, I asked for it. What I probably should have said was, I own an assault-type rifle, but I don't need to. I wanted it, so I got one, but no I really don't need it. And yes I appreciate the freedom to spend my money on a firearm like that because I can. However, are AK-47's (not what I own) fun to shoot, hell yes! Do I need one, not really. If you want one, go for it. That's great. Go get one. I really see both sides of the argument. One the one hand, do I think people like the recent mass killers should be why we have our gun rights limited, no. You could more or less describe those as isolated incidents that unfortunately prove that they can happen anytime, anywhere. But I also understand that those two killers did not have criminal backgrouds that prevented them from buying their weapons legally, then using them illegally. So to stop the sale of those would prevent people like that from buying assult type rifles like the one used in Colorado. And yes, I believe even that statement doesn't hold water because people who want to do harm will always find a way to do so with whatever is available to them. Believe me, I am a strong supporter of gun rights, and I wish more people took the time to appreciate the responsibility that comes with having a CHL and went out and got one. I love living in this state because it cares about this issue of gun rights.
Which brings me to something else I'd like to address. This topic was, as I understood, was to be about President Obama and his contempt for guns/gun owners and his agenda to come after them/us. I addressed the Bain thing because someone brought it up, and other than that, I've tried not address the other criticisms about the President, not because I can't or don't know any good arguments because I'm sure I could, but I really wanted to address the issue of our President and his record with regards to the 2nd amendment, and address my concerns about the alternative come November and maybe next year, Mitt Romney and his record regarding the 2nd Amendment. I know there are other topics about Obama Lying, or ObamaCare Mistake, Birthers, or whatever, and I'm glad this forum gives un an outlet to debate these topics. And I understand why other things would have been brought up on this topic to show cause and example as to Obama's record of lying/flip-flopping and thats what influences someone's belief as to why he can't be trusted about guns.
However, all I'm trying to do is deal with the issue of both options of Obama and Romney and their records regarding fireamrs. In the end, I'm not really that worried with either of them regarding this. The NRA is too powerful of a lobby to let something like Clinton's AWB to happen again. I don't think Congress would ever seriously look at this topic again, unless we have a severe frequent occurance of more mass shootings occur. I hope that doesn't happen, primarily because I hate hearing about people being senselessly murdered. Still, I'm just not worried about Obama on this issue. And side by side, I also don't think Romney is a better choice to protect this issue either. He's probably better for others, but based on the arguements, not necessarily better than Obama.
Search found 6 matches
- Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:13 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Obama and Guns
- Replies: 55
- Views: 9700
- Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:47 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Obama and Guns
- Replies: 55
- Views: 9700
Re: Obama and Guns
So, how far back do you want to go? What did Illinois House Representative Obama, then US Senator Obama lie about regarding his support for gun owners? I'd like to know specifically when and what statement you are referring to so I can answer you properly.jimlongley wrote:Well, that depends on how far back you go. He does have a track record of lying about his support for gun owners, which sure seems to be a large part of anything that he has done.Matto79 wrote: . . . Partly due to the fact that be hasn't done anything to us (gun owners) yet. He hasn't enacted any new laws. All he's done is (and I know this next word will get jumped on) talk about greater enforcing the current gun laws we have. . . .
You also can know him by the company he keeps, what he says seems to me to be for political purposes and to placate the "powerful gun lobby" but those around him are most certainly anti-rights and have proved it many times.
And, with the idea of going back in time, regarding Mitt Romney, would you like to go to his 1994 Senate Campaign in which he publicly distanced himself from the NRA, or to July of 2004 when he signed the permanent assault weapons ban into law in Massachusetts? Then in 2006 he becomes a lifetime member of the NRA. Hmmm. I also see during his 2008 campaign he said if elected President, and the Assault Weapons Ban came to him, he would reaffirm it into law. That doesn't sound like something Wayne LaPierre and the NRA membership would appreciate. You can call it flip-flopping, or evolving of views, or whatever you want. But if your definition of lying is saying and doing one thing a while back, then changing your tune years later, then Mitt is a pretty heavily documented liar on this topic.
- Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:23 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Obama and Guns
- Replies: 55
- Views: 9700
Re: Obama and Guns
Also, don't quote examiner.com. That website is as unregulated at Wikipedia.C-dub wrote:gdanaher wrote:He is quietly working to create anti gun legislation? He actually legalized illegal aliens? Really?? Is there any evidence of this at all? If so, quote it. Do not use the off the chart internet 'newspapers'. Try something like the WSJ, or the actual written legislation that was introduced and given a number. The POTUS might in fact be opposed to assault weapons, and everyone gets an opinion. He has made no effort to initiate legislation, and in the next 4 years if he is around you can bet it is a non issue. Please take what the folks at the big lobby in DC have to say about this with a grain of salt. They are selling memberships which means bucks. If they can get people all worked up, their pockets are enriched.We've also talked about it here. Just search (obama under radar) on our forum.Sarah Brady claims Obama pushing ‘under the radar’ gun control
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 19 April, 2011 | David Codrea
Posted on Wed Apr 20 2011 06:54:32 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by marktwain
Anti-gun activist Sarah Brady claims President Barack Obama is committed to stealth gun control according to a report in The Washington Post.
Recounting a March 30 meeting between Brady, her husband Jim and White House Press secretary Jay Carney, The Post reports:
During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.
“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”
Among the measures discussed:
[H]ow records get into the system and what can be done about firearms retailers. Her husband specifically brought up the proposed ban on large magazine clips…
While Brady reports the president “just laughed” she also expressed “absolute confidence that the president was committed to regulation.”
That Obama is coyly discussing “processes…under the radar” directly contradicts a campaign pledge further documented via an official White House memorandum:
My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.
There is nothing transparent, open or participatory about maneuvers to exercise control over unalienable rights. The entire purpose of being “under the radar” is to escape detection.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=56208&p=697136&hil ... ar#p697136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We've also talked about his immigration policies.
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=55814&hilit=obama+ ... immigrants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... immigrants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:21 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Obama and Guns
- Replies: 55
- Views: 9700
Re: Obama and Guns
C-dub, I didn't quote the rest of your post because with some of your claims, I don't know enough or anything about that to give an educated/proper opinioned response. As far as Mitt and Bain go, I assume you mean the claim that Mitt was secretly in charge of Bain during discussed period of massive job outsourcing and several business going bankrupt. Yea, that's quite a stretch of the truth, and several fact check sites agree. However, I won't say all lies in the fact that during his many leave of absences, and post leaving the firm, Mitt received pretty nice compensation packages, partly made possible by Bain's actions in regards to their outsourcing efforts of certain companies. That would be the main and only fault of Mitt in my opinion. Maybe not running the show, but taking a fat paycheck bankrolled off job losses in the US. That's it. But did he order Bain to make those moves? I don't think so. So yeah, Obama's campaign should back off that, and reword their claim better.C-dub wrote:
I hope you have as much disdain for lies that Dingy Harry and the Obamanation have told about Mitt and Bain Capital as you do for theoretical concerns that conservatives do about the Obamanation base on his prior actions and statements. The latest is, of course, that Mitt is responsible for a woman's death from, undiagnosed while at Bain, cancer 7 years after he left the company and 5 years after she left another company where she did have health care coverage.
I do wish Mitt would release those tax returns though. I personally would like to know his worth, and what made in salary dating back to the early Bain days. Hiding his taxes only adds fuel to the fire. If he has nothing to hide, just release them. Nearly every president and candidate has before him, including his Dad.
In regard to your claim hoping I'm fair about false claims being made from both sides, I assure you I am. I don't like when either side takes things out of context, or uses inflammatory speech to get people riled up over half-truths and falsehoods. For example, Obama should talk to his ad folks and have them quit pursuing the angle that Mitt, while running Bain, ordered jobs be outsourced to China. That type of claim is helping no one be more informed properly. Honestly, I hate that, from both sides. I can't stand when people make false statements and try to pass them off as truths. Polarizing people like Sarah Palin are the worst. They infect our conversations with their ignorance, and most of the time, we do nothing. Like someone else posts, we look for the part in the article that we agree with, and stop reading. I try to look at everything I can.
I hated it when people made comparisons of Bush and Monkeys and called him a War Criminal and I hate it now when people paint Hilter mustaches on Obama's face and call him a Nazi, or emphasize his middle name trying to imply he's a Muslim terrorist. Its all wrong. But, people like ignorance unfortunately.
Also, I'm not one of those people who think all conservatives and declared Republicans are bad people and the only ones who spit ignorance. Liberals/Democrats (I wish those weren't dirty words in Texas) are just as guilty of playing that game too. And that's why I've spoken up. I'm just tired of reading and hearing people tear down the President with false statements, or not taking the time to back up their claims with research. I can't sit back anymore and not say anything. I may lean and vote Democrat more than I do Republican (but I have voted for and will still vote for several Republicans), but at least I'm not so far to one side that I forget the other side exists. And just to be clear, I'm not implying that you are like that either.
- Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:53 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Obama and Guns
- Replies: 55
- Views: 9700
Re: Obama and Guns
Well, I can ask the same thing about Mitt Romney. How are we to believe Mitt Romney that he is against creating new gun control laws when he signed and enacted the Assault Weapons Ban in Massachusetts? Just because he said he's for protecting the 2nd amendment during campaign season and he joined the NRA?glockstero wrote:So Matto,
Considering Obama's record of truth telling thus far, what makes you think he will keep his word on his views of the 2nd ammedment? Me thinks it will be like his promise to have the health care bill debated and discussed on CSPAN among a slew of other lies.
And just so you don't think I sidestepped your last comment, you are correct. He did say they would broadcast the debates on C-SPAN and that never happened. I'll give you that.
What makes me think he'll (Obama) keep his promise? Partly due to the fact that be hasn't done anything to us (gun owners) yet. He hasn't enacted any new laws. All he's done is (and I know this next word will get jumped on) talk about greater enforcing the current gun laws we have. He's for the assault weapons ban. Fine. This will sound ignorant, but oh well. I already have one. Got the only one I want/need. If he's successful, I guess I bought mine in time. (Sorry for how ignorant that sounds, really)
Will criminals still gain access to assault weapons if a ban is reinstated, probably. But here is a worse problem, I think.
Search TXCHLFORUM for topics regarding James Holmes or Wade Michael Page. You'll see the few topics regarding the facts of the shootings and how tragic they were.
Then the anti-liberal/anti-democrats/anti-Obama comments. Heck, one person said his 16 year old had a theory that the Colorado shooting was probably orchestrated by anti-gun liberals to help further their gun control agenda. I understand free speech, but that comment still has me upset. That is as bad as the 9/11 conspiracy theorists suggesting that was planned by Bush's administration to allow them to pass the Patriot Act and sidestep laws so they could go and do whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted. Both are wrong.
You can even search "Obama", and you'll get a ton of hits of anti-Obama sentiment over a huge range of issues, particularly gun.
Moreover, try searching the forum for comments regarding condemnation or punishment or hatred of James Holmes and Wade Michael Page. You won't find any, at least I didn't. That's a problem. Its people like these two sick and deranged men, who actually bought hand guns and an AR15 legally and proceeded to go on shooting rampages, that have caused us gun owners to have this discussion right now. These killers screwed us! They bought their guns the same way we did, except where we are responsible and hopefully good Christian people, these men are/were evil with like intentions of doing harm. You wan't to be mad at a President who hasn't messed with our gun rights? Fine.
I'll be irritated at people like these killers who's evil acts are forcing this unfortunate dialog were having/debating about gun control. If (and I believe with all my heart it won't happen) the government came after our guns, it won't be mainly their (govt) fault. It will be the fault of evil ignorant killers like Homles and Page that screwed it up for the rest of us by forcing the hand of those in power.
Trust me, blame Page and Holmes.
- Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:43 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Obama and Guns
- Replies: 55
- Views: 9700
Re: Obama and Guns
At the risk of being labeled a dirty liberal or a "commy lover," I kinda feel the need to speak up.
I've spend a good amount of time researching this topic of Obama coming after our guns and his hidden agenda to destroy the 2nd Amendment right we all love and cherish. I'm confident that this conspiracy theory is false and doesn't hold water.
The President has stated he is in favor of reinstating the assault weapon ban. Will it happen...no. Despite the two recent tragic mass shootings in Colorado and the Wisconsin Sihk Temple, I don't believe there is enough negative sentiment towards guns and assault rifles that the sale of such and possession should, or worse, will get banned. Even with the Brady Bill, it said the sale of assault rifles were illegal. Those who already owned them, and didn't break the law, could keep them. And its not like I'm not worried because it doesn't affect me. I own an assault rifle. But I'm not worried that President Obama is coming after it. I'm sure many of you will call me naive, but there really isn't any real evidence to support it.
Mitt Romney, as Governor of Massachusettes, signed an assault weapons ban into law. There is no expiration of that ban. Its still in effect. And I haven't heard, unless I missed it, Mitt come out and say his home state should repeal that law that he signed. He didn't call for it during his time at Governor.
Wayne LaPierre of the NRA is convinced that Obama will come for our guns if re-elected. But to me, it seems that Romney has done (as in completed actions in the past) more to infringe on gun owners rights as a politician with executive experience than President Obama has in the last 3 and a half years as President. Only recently has Mitt Romney started to change his tune on gun rights. Now, I won't call Mitt a "flip flop." I'll give him credit and say his views have evolved over time, regardless of the reason. But honestly, I'd be a a little fearful of a candidate who actually signed bills into law that restricted gun owners rights over what they can and can't buy/own and changed his mind all of a sudden than a President who has been more or less "on the fence" on the whole issue, but really has never come out and signed or championed any laws that directly infringed our rights as active gun owners. In fact, you could make the conspiracy claim that since Mitt signed into law his own Assault Weapons Ban, that his recent turn around was to create this idea that he's "seen the light" to get us all to vote for him, and when he becomes President, he turns his back on his campaing promise to protect our rights and instead enacts his not-so-secret plan to re-enact the Federal Assault Weapons ban, similar to the Massachusetts ban, that we should have all seen coming. (I'm sorry for that long, and probably gramatically incorrect sentence, but hopefully you get the gist) As stupid as that claim is, so to is the one about President Obama. But, Romney is a recently paid in life-time member of the NRA, an organization that at one point Romney wanted nothing to do with, but the past is the past, and I really do mean that sincerely. But like Romney said, you got to give a little to get a little. The NRA probably appreciates the endorsement of a Republican Candidate for President, just like a Presidential Candidate enjoys the return big endorsement from the NRA.
And as a person who owns more than a few guns myself, as much as the NRA is supposed to be about protecting the 2nd Amendment, its hard for me to pay for a membership to a group who's leader (Wayne) continues to spit inflamed and massively unsubstantiated claims about our Presient and his "secret agenda" to enact the worst gun control laws we've ever seen. On the issue of Gun Rights/Gun Control, when I see more facts and backed up statements made from the NRA, I'll probably get my membership. Until then, I guess I'll count myself out. Its hard for me to accept and take seriously people and/or groups that spread ignorant/false/inflamatory speech into the public dialog. Also, it just always seems that when scary statements like these are proposed, gun sales always seem to go way up. There just can't be any correlation between the two... That was sarcasm.
Is President Obama a great President, no. Will Mitt Romney, if elected become a great President and the answer to our country's problems? I seriously doubt it. Singularly on the Gun issue, I really don't feel Mitt is any better than Barack. I know most or all of you disagree, and that's perfectly ok. But if were going to have a discussion about his, we have to look at the facts, and stop treating conspiracies like they're Bible. Calling President Obama a socialist, a communist, a secret hater of guns and gun owners is as bad (all of which are not true) as Wade Michael Page mistaking Sikh's as Muslims and shooting up one of their temples in revenge for 9/11. Spreading false ideas like these do harm, sometimes with the guns that we so desperately cherish.
Don't let these extreme right conservatives like Wayne LaPierre, Ted Nuggent, Sarah Palin, and others convince you our President is targeting you and our 2nd Amendment rights. I truly believe, after looking over the facts, not rumors, that he isnt. Now, if I'm proven wrong one day, I will surely eat crow over it for my defense of the President in regard to these attacks. However, (go ahead and call me naive) I doubt that day will come, and not because I think he won't get re-elected. If re-elected, I doubt we, as responsible gun owners, will feel any sting during his 2nd term.
I've spend a good amount of time researching this topic of Obama coming after our guns and his hidden agenda to destroy the 2nd Amendment right we all love and cherish. I'm confident that this conspiracy theory is false and doesn't hold water.
The President has stated he is in favor of reinstating the assault weapon ban. Will it happen...no. Despite the two recent tragic mass shootings in Colorado and the Wisconsin Sihk Temple, I don't believe there is enough negative sentiment towards guns and assault rifles that the sale of such and possession should, or worse, will get banned. Even with the Brady Bill, it said the sale of assault rifles were illegal. Those who already owned them, and didn't break the law, could keep them. And its not like I'm not worried because it doesn't affect me. I own an assault rifle. But I'm not worried that President Obama is coming after it. I'm sure many of you will call me naive, but there really isn't any real evidence to support it.
Mitt Romney, as Governor of Massachusettes, signed an assault weapons ban into law. There is no expiration of that ban. Its still in effect. And I haven't heard, unless I missed it, Mitt come out and say his home state should repeal that law that he signed. He didn't call for it during his time at Governor.
Wayne LaPierre of the NRA is convinced that Obama will come for our guns if re-elected. But to me, it seems that Romney has done (as in completed actions in the past) more to infringe on gun owners rights as a politician with executive experience than President Obama has in the last 3 and a half years as President. Only recently has Mitt Romney started to change his tune on gun rights. Now, I won't call Mitt a "flip flop." I'll give him credit and say his views have evolved over time, regardless of the reason. But honestly, I'd be a a little fearful of a candidate who actually signed bills into law that restricted gun owners rights over what they can and can't buy/own and changed his mind all of a sudden than a President who has been more or less "on the fence" on the whole issue, but really has never come out and signed or championed any laws that directly infringed our rights as active gun owners. In fact, you could make the conspiracy claim that since Mitt signed into law his own Assault Weapons Ban, that his recent turn around was to create this idea that he's "seen the light" to get us all to vote for him, and when he becomes President, he turns his back on his campaing promise to protect our rights and instead enacts his not-so-secret plan to re-enact the Federal Assault Weapons ban, similar to the Massachusetts ban, that we should have all seen coming. (I'm sorry for that long, and probably gramatically incorrect sentence, but hopefully you get the gist) As stupid as that claim is, so to is the one about President Obama. But, Romney is a recently paid in life-time member of the NRA, an organization that at one point Romney wanted nothing to do with, but the past is the past, and I really do mean that sincerely. But like Romney said, you got to give a little to get a little. The NRA probably appreciates the endorsement of a Republican Candidate for President, just like a Presidential Candidate enjoys the return big endorsement from the NRA.
And as a person who owns more than a few guns myself, as much as the NRA is supposed to be about protecting the 2nd Amendment, its hard for me to pay for a membership to a group who's leader (Wayne) continues to spit inflamed and massively unsubstantiated claims about our Presient and his "secret agenda" to enact the worst gun control laws we've ever seen. On the issue of Gun Rights/Gun Control, when I see more facts and backed up statements made from the NRA, I'll probably get my membership. Until then, I guess I'll count myself out. Its hard for me to accept and take seriously people and/or groups that spread ignorant/false/inflamatory speech into the public dialog. Also, it just always seems that when scary statements like these are proposed, gun sales always seem to go way up. There just can't be any correlation between the two... That was sarcasm.
Is President Obama a great President, no. Will Mitt Romney, if elected become a great President and the answer to our country's problems? I seriously doubt it. Singularly on the Gun issue, I really don't feel Mitt is any better than Barack. I know most or all of you disagree, and that's perfectly ok. But if were going to have a discussion about his, we have to look at the facts, and stop treating conspiracies like they're Bible. Calling President Obama a socialist, a communist, a secret hater of guns and gun owners is as bad (all of which are not true) as Wade Michael Page mistaking Sikh's as Muslims and shooting up one of their temples in revenge for 9/11. Spreading false ideas like these do harm, sometimes with the guns that we so desperately cherish.
Don't let these extreme right conservatives like Wayne LaPierre, Ted Nuggent, Sarah Palin, and others convince you our President is targeting you and our 2nd Amendment rights. I truly believe, after looking over the facts, not rumors, that he isnt. Now, if I'm proven wrong one day, I will surely eat crow over it for my defense of the President in regard to these attacks. However, (go ahead and call me naive) I doubt that day will come, and not because I think he won't get re-elected. If re-elected, I doubt we, as responsible gun owners, will feel any sting during his 2nd term.