TexasCHLforum.com

Abraham wrote:No, I wouldn't start the conversation with a search denial either.

Only if requested, of course. I didn't make that clear, my fault for not doing so.

A lot of these "I'm law a abiding citizen and you can't treat me like a criminal" attitudes sound great, in theory.

What I'd like to hear about is: Ever done the old road side search denial? If so, how'd that work out for you with the police officer? What was the follow up situation?

Same for road side police questions and you remain mum unless you have a lawyer present while not being Mirandized - how did that go...? If anyone has done that, I'd love to know how that scenario worked out also.

Or similarly, if the police officer simply asks me what I consider inappropriate questions, I won't and don't have to answer. What happened after not answering?

To help keep the OP's responses going, had I been threatened in the manner he endured, I wouldn't let bygones be bygones. The officer's "after action response" if you will, is entirely unacceptable. He, the officer, obviously still doesn't get it.

yes I have infact said you may not search, the LEO just got angry, I got the ticket he was going to give me anyway, I got it dismissed
yes I have given broad non specific answers to non pertainant questions, just got a "get the bleep outta here" one time and a ticket another that also got dismissed
I have stood toe to toe and told an LEO that unless he had an EMS Certification he had no say in the care and treatment of a patient that was not being arrested, he got a weeks unpaid suspension and a district transfer because he threatened to arrest me and take me to jail while I was in direct care of a patient, he also got a visit from the enforcement division of DSHS and advised that the next time he made medical decisions without a certification he would be charged with practicing medicine without a license, last I heard he moved to Florida.

Nightshift wrote:"I will not legitimize your continued attempt to paint all LEO's as unprofessional" who said I was attempting anything, so you are saying that my experience with cops has to be the same as yours, or its invalid? Whatever then. Thanks.

no one is saying your interaction with LEO's is the same as anyone elses, they are all different as we are all different. I don't think anyone here is coloring all LEO interactions as unprofessional or that your personal interactions are invalid. what most of us here are saying is that no matter what you believe a police officer has a job to do, he or she will ask questions that are infact meant to lead you to disclosing information that you may not want them to have, searching your vehicle and possibly finding something you may not want them to know about even if its not against the law. we are advocating the CYA rule, a lie is a lie an omission may be considered a lie, but your lack of knowledge isn't a lie, but rather a perceptive difference of what is going on.

As I see things at this point you asked a question, we gave an answer. Our answer is not one that you agree with, our theory isn't one you can subscribe to and therefore you are becomming intractable or purposely obtuse in reading the answers. When one becomes petulant upon reading something that doesn't agree with ones preconcieved notion, one should reconsider if ones belief and value system is infact valid or is one looking to make a statement by petulance.

All of here including many of the LEO's subscribe to the belief that we should never give up our rights in the name of expedience or avoiding discord, you maintain that giving up your rights is the easier road as it will inconvienience you less or be safer. I refute and refuse to accept both precepts as fact or even a valid hypothesis because of the reality that I have been detained for possible cause and now the LEO wishes to see what if anything he can find, this costs me time, dignity and removes my right to reasonable privacy, the LEO may or may not have a reasonable belief that I may have something in my vehicle that I shouldn't have but not have any real way to articulate that belief as it may be nothing more than because he just has a "funny feeling". If you believe as most of us do that if its just a funny feeling it may just be the kolache's he had an hour ago then you are being someone who might be a reasonable person, if however you believe that it is incumbant upon you to do as the officer askes with no perceptable and definable reason then you might be the current administrations best spokesman.

Nightshift wrote:I am not so much trying to state a position, more trying to pose a question to see what people think. I would like to hear opinions on this as I am not decided on what to do in that situation but in my opinion and from my experience most of the cops that I have dealt with when I am by myself tend to be somewhat on a power trip. That is my experience. However when I am with my wife or another person most cops tend to be much less likely to act this way. During my CHL class the instructor pretty much told us to comply with any request including search because ultimately if they want to search, they will find a way to do it. Part of the class we talked about a situation where and when to use deadly force and the discussion basically ended up with the conclusion that if someone is stealing your car lets say or some other property if you use deadly force you will go to jail and you will have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself. In the end its going to cost you a lot of money regardless of whether you are found innocent of any charges. So in the end you have to way the odds of whether its worth the cost of defending yourself and if its not a life threatening situation most of the time its not worth the cost. In the same manner I would have to ask the question which I originally posed, is it worth the chance that you may end up in worse trouble if you refuse to allow a search than to just allow the search. I dont know, like I said I am not fully decided on this as I have never had to deal with a search. I believe you should stand up for your rights but at the same time, standing up for them may cost you more than just allowing a search.

Its very simple, if the officer has probable cause to search he will search without your consent, if he is just fishing he will ask, so the answer is always " I DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY SEARCH" if he badgers you then calmly state the same. ok so LEO's flame away, if he askes what you feel to be unrelated questions or questions that have no relavance to the situation at hand give broad non specific answers he may get frustrated and give you a citation but thats about it. you can be arrested for almost anything here in texas so if the LEO's of a mind that he wants to arrest someone he's going to do just that no matter what you do. I personally refuse to give spefic answers to things like "where are you going" or where were you at, where are you comming from, what are you doing out at this time. I say things like, that way, over there just sight seeing I would never tell the officer I was comming from visiting his wife he might get real mad. Never lie to the officer, but you don't actually have to answer anything he asks, you do not have to allow a search of anything, not your car, not your house or anything else

Nightshift wrote:I see a lot of people saying to refuse a search, my feeling is that a refusal only makes you look more suspicious and most cops already view people as having something to hide and with so many unscrupulous cops with power trips out there if you refuse they will just bring a dog and claim the dog is smelling something and even worse if you make them go through all of that to search your car they may be irritated enough to plant something. Then you go to jail or prison just to stand up for your rights. So is refusing the smartest thing you can do in this situation?

YES!