TexasCHLforum.com

AndyC wrote:

blackopstx wrote:you want knockdown power

That told me all I need to know right there.

LoL. I didn't want to get into the physics of "knockdown power"... in handguns, or for hunting. I think your right though.. this statement pretty well explains things.

By the way, I went ahead and looked at their website. The testimonials were entertaining.

32 ACP ... a coyote shot with 32 ACP literally flips a cotote around in the air.

... Ok. I dont think I need to comment on this.

.40 cal.... man shot with .40 cal, sending the man flying 6 feet through the air....

... show me with physics how this is even possible, and I will poop you a golden apple.

US Military using this ammunition to kill BG's

I did not know that the Military was legally allowed to use anything but FMJ. Interesting.

There is a difference in "hunting rounds" and "defensive rounds." The ammo you were talking about earlier were definately defensive rounds. Hollowpoint, etc. This Predator .223 business your talking about now, I have no idea about... have never even looked at it.

Defensive rounds are designed to attain 12 inches or so of penetration, while the bullet rapidly expands. This is not the case with hunting rounds. Your typical hunting round is built around penetration, and if it expands some... great, but you dont wan't it expanding like a hollowpoint. 1) expansion damages mean. 2) expansion stops penetration.

I hunt deer and pigs regularly.... pig more often. Javelina and Feral. Lets say I took a defensive cartridge in .223 to go hunting these pigs with. These round are meant for humans, not animals. Pigs can be especially tough to take down.. . a regular defensive round placed around the front shoulder of a pig would penetrate about 5 inches.. maybe.. and come to a complete stop. The pig would get away.. maybe live a couple days.. and die of infection or something eventually. Hunting rounds are meant to penetrate, not expand.

But whatever. Your mileage may vary. I'm happy to let this thread die...

blackopstx wrote:

olafpfj wrote:

blackopstx wrote:
(BTW I don't think used car salesmen hock time shares)

You don't say!! <sarcasm> in case its missed. But if they did I imagine it would sound similar. Minus all the ammo stuff though since we're being literal...

I like the stuff have used it in real world scenarios, in a variety of places and experiences

Please...Regale us with haughty tales of daring. If its been declassified of course. Certainly don't want any Opsec violations here...

Anyway ..you got your debate and when you lost you got really petulant and lashed out with personal attacks and name calling against a very respected member of the forum. Feel free to respond by PM since this is getting off topic and out of line with the usual jovial tone of this forum.

Hope everyone's Monday is going as well as one can,

When you say "lost" the debate olafpfj, what was the winning ammo in the debate, I haven't seen much if any comparable data to why any of the "non Gimmick" ammo is better or more reliable....have you personally hunted with RBCD or shot any soft tissue targets with it? If you haven't you really should give it a shot before forming an opinion off of people who don't like it on the internet, and probably haven't shot it either. I can only imagine in your best Hank Hill voice when you say ,"petulant and lashing out at a very respected member of the forum." So if you could enlighten me as to which ammo is the "winning" ammo, and why....some data like I've provided would be useful.

If anyone, including you... is using any type of "defensive" round, including RBCD, for the purposes of hunting..... then they are being an idiot. You can take that to the bank. Going out and shooting a brisquit or a rack of ribs with defensive ammunition is one thing, but hunting a live animal with this is not only inhumane in most cases, but ill-advised. Exceptions of course being small squirrels, and things of that nature....and even then I'll call 'em an idiot.

From my limited experience with RBCD Ammunition ... This is the conclusion I have come to:

RBCD will inflict about as much damage as bird shot out of a shotgun. Basically, because of the immediate fragmentation on contact, it dices up and creates a nice big shallow wound.. a whole lot like bird shot would. The penetration just isn't where I feel it should be for effective use in self defense.

Your username implies that you are former military, specifically black-ops. I won't argue that, but I do ask why someone of your experience would accept a round that repeatedly proves not to penetrate soft tissue more than 8-10 inches? As much as I hated FMJ stuff in the military (Saw too many direct hits go right through guys... and they kept fighting), at least it penetrated to their vitals. This is the deciding factor to incapacitate.... unless you get lucky, manage to not hit bone.. and shoot someone in the back, I don't feel confident that RBCD would do the job.

blackopstx wrote:Thank You for the welcome, no sales pitch here just prefer the best of the best when my life's on the line. Believe me I was just as skeptical as some of you have indicated but you can read articles and reviews till your blue in the face...as with most things experience is paramount to forming an educated consensus re: this stuff. At the same time absolutely carry and shot what your comfortable with, this stuff is impressive and the cost/benefit is unrivaled in my opinion!

Well.. since you asked...

I dont carry a gun. I just take my wife with me everywhere... her fury is more intimidating and reliable than any gun or ammo I have ever used

No .. in all seriousness, Hornady Critical Defense. They shoot well everytime. They perform great in ballistics. I carry a lot of them... Should be ok

.......still sounds like a sales pitch. YMMV

Hordady Critical Defense...
9 mm 115 grain
.357 mag 125 grain
.45 ACP 185 grain