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This thread is very very long and I have been MIA for about a year. However the bit about a baby having its face being blown off as collateral damage as being the cost of fighting evil about makes my eyes fall out of my socket with fury.


We are not in a war zone. This child's parents had not put her next to an AQ camp. Her parents were not AQ operatives. Her parents were not even Participating in any illegal activities. She was in her home in her crib where she belonged. She was grievously assaulted and disfigured for LIFE because someone #1 was lazy #2 lied. How would you like your little girl to go through her life with such injury because of the actions of a careless person? 1 million dollars is a paltry sum. It won't even cover her medical expenses.

Things like this erode the public trust. They put police officers lives in danger because incident by incident both the public and the police cease to look at each other as working towards the same goal and rather as us vs them. That is a police state and that is very very dangerous.

Considering the trouble the sheriff is likely in politically I would take EVERYTHING coming out of his mouth for public consumption with a shaker of salt.

I lost nearly everything once. All my husband and I had was one of our cars, our baby boy, and a few boxes worth possessions. You do not always have ideal choices. So perhaps these people had better option.....perhaps not.

You think other people will help....maybe, maybe not. When we asked for help we got a $20 voucher for Kroger from our church, and a bag of nearly rotten groceries from a local ministry. The next day I quite literally watched a drug deal go down 10 feet from my front door. Terrifying. We got out as best we could around two weeks later. It was a brutal two years. We moved four times and were sued by a crazy landlord that would not stop breaking into the tiny apartment we had rented to take pictures of laundry baskets with clothes and baby toys.

Maybe the parents knew about what was going on....maybe not. I had lived in that particular place for three months and had not known my neighbor was a drug dealer. Does not matter to me.

When you employ an explosive you are responsible for what happens next. If that explosive hits a child, at minimum, the ones who threw the grenade need to pony up for the extensive medical bills. They also need to do some serious revamp of their surveillance policy if they did not know that there were kids in the house, they should have. They are the ones bringing brutal if not lethal force into a citizens home they need to know (for their own saftey and others) who and what is in that home.

EEllis wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:
A little watchfulness a little creative thought on the part of law enforcement and many of these horrific situations can be easily avoided. Take him down as he walks from his house to the car. Take him down as he is driving on the highway and you can see he is alone. Do as was suggested and arrange a meeting at a place you can control the environment. Raids in the middle of the night where there are known innocents just because that is the listed address of the person are lazy and poor police work much of the time.

That is not wishful thinking that is using ones head to make a safer arrest that won't put innocents in harms way.

Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not an expert on this but what would make you think you are either? If there is an issue, your theory just seems like the flipside of it, not making real change. By that I mean the concern that I have is that the people in LE make decisions based on what they "Think" is the best way to go without really looking and availing themselves of the science and research that we could have on the subjects. There are issues with both your scenarios that would allow bad things to happen. Just they are different bad things than what happened here. What we need is better research and evaluation of the possibilities rather than having people who have never done it mandating how it occurs.

One does not have to be an expert in these situations to have some common sense. Proper recon would include the minivan with the children's toys in the driveway. Proper recon would know that the person was in the home at the time. If I was at a party and threw a fire cracker and it went off badly and hit a kid in the mouth how much you want to bet I would be in deep trouble? That would be an accident where I had little control over the outcome. They purposefully threw an incidiary without being certain of what it would hit. That is irresponsible under any circumstances.

This child might or might not survive, will certainly be scarred for life. This toddler is enduring right now unimaginable pain. Why....because no one took the time to think or to look where they were throwing an explosive. I find that unacceptable collateral.

EEllis wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:What I don't get is why, in the name of all that is holy, if firearms and drugs are known to be present and are such a threat to officers lives that they have to engage in combat tactics with potential children in the home, don't they wait for the guy to be leaving 7-11 and take him there then get a warrant for the house and show up and get the evidence no drama needed.


If I can think of that, why can't they?

Like I have said before we all think we are so sofistcated in our police and criminal justice system, but in much more brutal times those who enforced the law were severely punished if they burned innocents along with the guilty.

Because there are never any kids at 7-11? You might be right that it is a better choice to try and apprehend someone outside a home but you have more variables that could occur outside than in a home. Assuming that it would provide better results without having access to more data is wishful thinking. What is really needed is real research into the issue and fact based decision making.

A little watchfulness a little creative thought on the part of law enforcement and many of these horrific situations can be easily avoided. Take him down as he walks from his house to the car. Take him down as he is driving on the highway and you can see he is alone. Do as was suggested and arrange a meeting at a place you can control the environment. Raids in the middle of the night where there are known innocents just because that is the listed address of the person are lazy and poor police work much of the time.

That is not wishful thinking that is using ones head to make a safer arrest that won't put innocents in harms way.

What I don't get is why, in the name of all that is holy, if firearms and drugs are known to be present and are such a threat to officers lives that they have to engage in combat tactics with potential children in the home, don't they wait for the guy to be leaving 7-11 and take him there then get a warrant for the house and show up and get the evidence no drama needed.


If I can think of that, why can't they?

Like I have said before we all think we are so sofistcated in our police and criminal justice system, but in much more brutal times those who enforced the law were severely punished if they burned innocents along with the guilty.