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Return to “Signs for the CHLer”
- Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:22 am
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...I don't find it in any of the threads...likely someone saw her put it in her purse, or she blabbed about it...had it been concealed and private info, this likely wouldn't have ever happened...it may have been mentioned in the video that the OP quoted from...but I can't pull that up...Startlegram and Dallas Morning News searches turned up nothing...even the police report may not have it spelled out...
- Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:58 am
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...I agree that she violated her employer's orders and did something foolish...but that's not breaking a law...
...I agree that most officers DON'T carry into lockdown areas, but they, by law, CAN and DO and have...occasionally...
...I don't agree that Bedford had facts that made it a good arrest...they couldn't have...she'd broken no law...and the DA didn't support it, he dismissed it...and his reasons supported that she'd broken no law...
...I don't think she missed understanding the CHL laws...and obeying them is why she was released without a trial...her thinking about carrying in such a place and especially leaving the weapon unsecured needs a lot of work...and I don't fault them for firing her...but, again, that's business, not criminal law...
...I agree nothing further can be served by continuing back-and-forth...the facts are here for all to read...and the opinions are our own...
...I agree that most officers DON'T carry into lockdown areas, but they, by law, CAN and DO and have...occasionally...
...I don't agree that Bedford had facts that made it a good arrest...they couldn't have...she'd broken no law...and the DA didn't support it, he dismissed it...and his reasons supported that she'd broken no law...
...I don't think she missed understanding the CHL laws...and obeying them is why she was released without a trial...her thinking about carrying in such a place and especially leaving the weapon unsecured needs a lot of work...and I don't fault them for firing her...but, again, that's business, not criminal law...
...I agree nothing further can be served by continuing back-and-forth...the facts are here for all to read...and the opinions are our own...
- Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:19 am
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...the original forum thread on this incident, from Jan 08 is
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12754&p=147214&hili ... se#p147214" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...the OP told us about the Ch. 8 video story...which has now been removed from the link...
...the video, according to the OP, showed an unenforceable sign on the hospital doors, and discussion on the video was regarding the signage not being properly enforceable 30.06 signage...the video even had shown an interview with a CHL instructor and showed an enforceable sign...no mention of written notice...
...either the Bedford Chief, or, as was later reported a police spokesman (a Lt.) said that hospitals were off limits period and she broke the law(the OP didn't report WHICH law the police officer said she'd broken)... there was no mention of "written notice" in all of this...
...Tx. Inv., a member, later in the same thread,posted a letter to the Chief in Bedford, making no mention of "written notice"
...the Chief replied, also posted in that thread, and now he said "written notice had been given and sufficed for notice" regardless of the door signs...first mention of "written notice"...this after public news report and contacts by several concerned citizens pointed out the unenforceable signs...
...no other facts were given us regarding the actual specific subportion of the law she had been charged under...it's public record in the booking records at the police dept...but it would have had to be under 30.06 or 46.035...we're not told which here...it makes no difference...
...on June 7, 2010, a member posted, again in the original thread, and said he'd just gotten an email from the Chief saying the DA declined to prosecute due to wording (not being exactly as it states in the statute) of not only the sign posted outside the building but also the wording in the hospital employee policy manual...
...her arrest was in no way justified...she broke no law...she didn't get off on a technicality...she was released without trial because she was a law-abiding CHL holder excercising her rights within the letter of the law and never should have been arrested in the first place...those who arrested her were not following the law, and, indeed, publicly proved they didn't know/understand what it said in the initial news report...the arrest wasn't good at all...she broke no law...none...
...I'm not saying the police are evil in the way they handled this...but they didn't know the law initially, and their statements changed as the facts were made public about their errors in understanding ...we don't know what they initially told her she was under arrest for, or what was booked, but the DA's report covered both first: signage and second: written notice being worded wrong as reasons not to prosecute...had the officers known the law thoroughly, they would never have deprived her of her liberty...
...the woman got fired...OK...the hospital has that right...she went against their policy...that's a matter of business, not law...she made a choice that her personal safety to and from work was more important than pleasing her employer...it cost her her job...
...my personal opinion was that she showed poor judgement to leave a weapon in an unsecured place...regardless of what that place was...she had no control over it while she worked...that's not wise...
...the police booking blotter and police officer's arrest report might say something else, we don't know from anything reported by the threads here, which are our source for understanding what happened...but for "written notice" to only be brought up after public news reports demonstrated that the sign was unenforceable, for the police spokesman to have demonstrated his ignorance of the 46.035 law, and for the DA(according to the Chief's email) to have given BOTH the wording of the sign AND ALSO the wording of the written notice as reasons not to prosecute, I can reasonably say that, as I posted above, her arrest was under the color of an unenforceable sign, since the DA gave it as half of the reason he didn't prosecute........as reasonably as anyone can say that it was under the color of written notice...and THAT'S the rest of the story, until someone goes and digs out the police records or interviews the arrested woman or the arresting officer...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12754&p=147214&hili ... se#p147214" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...the OP told us about the Ch. 8 video story...which has now been removed from the link...
...the video, according to the OP, showed an unenforceable sign on the hospital doors, and discussion on the video was regarding the signage not being properly enforceable 30.06 signage...the video even had shown an interview with a CHL instructor and showed an enforceable sign...no mention of written notice...
...either the Bedford Chief, or, as was later reported a police spokesman (a Lt.) said that hospitals were off limits period and she broke the law(the OP didn't report WHICH law the police officer said she'd broken)... there was no mention of "written notice" in all of this...
...Tx. Inv., a member, later in the same thread,posted a letter to the Chief in Bedford, making no mention of "written notice"
...the Chief replied, also posted in that thread, and now he said "written notice had been given and sufficed for notice" regardless of the door signs...first mention of "written notice"...this after public news report and contacts by several concerned citizens pointed out the unenforceable signs...
...no other facts were given us regarding the actual specific subportion of the law she had been charged under...it's public record in the booking records at the police dept...but it would have had to be under 30.06 or 46.035...we're not told which here...it makes no difference...
...on June 7, 2010, a member posted, again in the original thread, and said he'd just gotten an email from the Chief saying the DA declined to prosecute due to wording (not being exactly as it states in the statute) of not only the sign posted outside the building but also the wording in the hospital employee policy manual...
...her arrest was in no way justified...she broke no law...she didn't get off on a technicality...she was released without trial because she was a law-abiding CHL holder excercising her rights within the letter of the law and never should have been arrested in the first place...those who arrested her were not following the law, and, indeed, publicly proved they didn't know/understand what it said in the initial news report...the arrest wasn't good at all...she broke no law...none...
...I'm not saying the police are evil in the way they handled this...but they didn't know the law initially, and their statements changed as the facts were made public about their errors in understanding ...we don't know what they initially told her she was under arrest for, or what was booked, but the DA's report covered both first: signage and second: written notice being worded wrong as reasons not to prosecute...had the officers known the law thoroughly, they would never have deprived her of her liberty...
...the woman got fired...OK...the hospital has that right...she went against their policy...that's a matter of business, not law...she made a choice that her personal safety to and from work was more important than pleasing her employer...it cost her her job...
...my personal opinion was that she showed poor judgement to leave a weapon in an unsecured place...regardless of what that place was...she had no control over it while she worked...that's not wise...
...the police booking blotter and police officer's arrest report might say something else, we don't know from anything reported by the threads here, which are our source for understanding what happened...but for "written notice" to only be brought up after public news reports demonstrated that the sign was unenforceable, for the police spokesman to have demonstrated his ignorance of the 46.035 law, and for the DA(according to the Chief's email) to have given BOTH the wording of the sign AND ALSO the wording of the written notice as reasons not to prosecute, I can reasonably say that, as I posted above, her arrest was under the color of an unenforceable sign, since the DA gave it as half of the reason he didn't prosecute........as reasonably as anyone can say that it was under the color of written notice...and THAT'S the rest of the story, until someone goes and digs out the police records or interviews the arrested woman or the arresting officer...
- Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:21 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
... posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=609577" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; your answer's on page 2... click the thread title to see the whole thread...
- Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:37 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...so far in Texas, I've only read of one person arrested under color of an unenforceable sign...and the DA declined to prosecute...the overwhelming majority of LEOs in Texas seem to like us CHLers, probably because so few of us ever cause a problem, and most departments seem to educate pretty well what is and isn't enforceable in signs...I've heard of one hard-headed chief who blusters that his men will arrest even though the property's not posted well...but one well-filed lawsuit will change his ways when the City Manager sees the check written to the mistreated citizen...that's worked well in other states...Ruark wrote:I'm wondering just how far they would go in enforcing that last sign. It's not valid, but it says "violators will be arrested and prosecuted." Has anybody run into attempted enforcement of one of these "invalid" signs? Could things be straightened out on the spot with the arresting officer? Even if I know I have the right to carry, I'm really not in the mood to interrupt a relaxing afternoon drive with my wife with being arrested, cuffed, and taken to jail, possibly for several days, before having the opportunity to defend myself in front of a judge. That would be something of a, er, headache.
...I'll bet you'll be like most of us, carrying 20 years without anyone spotting your weapon...it's not that hard, and on the once-in-a-lifetime occasion where you must pull it in a place that "attempted" posting it...you won't even hesitate...nor should you expect problems for doing so...
- Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:31 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...that philosophy works especially well when contemplating a new purchase and wondering what the wife would say
- Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:57 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...there's only one way we can find out for sure why businesses post unenforceable signs which have some of the characteristics of the required 30.06 sign...and that's to ask them...why do that and risk the fact that they're serious about it and give you a verbal notice??? why point out their error and prompt them to correct it? why take the chance of burning the local, gun-loving manager who was told by corporate to put up a sign but didn't want to lose his loyal base of gun-toting customers by doing it correctly?
...I choose not to know the answer, not to let them know I'm smarter than they are about it...and quietly excercise my legal rights to carry concealed where there is no proper sign...some of life's questions just don't need answers...them's my thoughts...
...I choose not to know the answer, not to let them know I'm smarter than they are about it...and quietly excercise my legal rights to carry concealed where there is no proper sign...some of life's questions just don't need answers...them's my thoughts...
- Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:53 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...righton...our most deadly weapon was installed by the Creator between our ears...it may make use of many tools...
- Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:02 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...not in Texas...unless you ask them what it means and they give you a verbal explanation...so just walk on quietly by and betcha you won't beep....
- Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:57 am
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Signs for the CHLer
- Replies: 323
- Views: 158140
Re: Signs for the CHLer
...but now, if the police station is not located in another prohibited place (i.e. building in which offices of the court are located)...we may carry, subject to : http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 01709F.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I have, but not in the town where I live, where the court is also located...was not disarmed when I went into the squadroom to write my report...