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by Katygunnut
Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:32 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: 30.06 AMC Theaters
Replies: 61
Views: 15062

Re: 30.06 AMC Theaters

C-dub wrote:
Katygunnut wrote:That said, if the sign is not anywhere near any of the multiple entrances to the location, then I would argue that it is not "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public". This is similar to a business that has multiple entrances that are commonly used and only posts a few of them. At a minimum, I think it would be a defense to prosecution if the facts were that you entered the location through an entrance that is commonly used by the public, and there were no signs visible when you entered. If someone has to go out of their way to search all possible entrances (and in this case places that are not even near entrances) to see a sign, then I think the sign is by definition not "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public".

A similar situation would be a gas station / convenience store that put the 30.06 sign on the gas pumps, but had no sign near the door. Some customers will be at the gas pump before entering the building, others won't, just like in this case. Would we really expect a jury to convict a CHL holder because they stopped by the store to buy some milk and failed to walk around the entire premises searching for a potential 30.06 sign before entering?

Disclaimer - IANAL
I would make the same argument if I had to, but am afraid I would lose since the business that has a correct sign on even one entrance meets the definition of the law. I do not think this argument has been made in the courts yet because no one has violated it and been caught.
I'm not sure that I agree that a sign on one of many entrances meets the legal definition of being "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public". Sure it is visible to some of the public, but not all of the public that is visiting that store / location. To take one example, picture an Academy (I'm assuming most on this board are familiar with their typical layout). If a valid 30.06 sign is posted in the restroom area is it "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public"? The public is welcome to walk into that restroom area, and if they do, let's assume that they will clearly see the sign. However, not every member of the public who visits that location would typically enter that area of the store on a given trip, or possibly ever over a number of trips. In the same way, if I am a creature of habit and I always enter a Kroger or whatever through an unposted door, am I liable for the notice that was posted on a different entrance altogether?

IANAL, but it seems to me that the spirit of the law is that the owner of the premises needs to give fair warning that would reasonably be seen by a typical patron of their establishment. Posting only one of many entrances doesn't meet this standard, in my mind. Posting somewhere on the outside of the building, away from any of the entrances (as in the case of AMC) is basically equivalent to posting outside the restrooms, IMHO.
by Katygunnut
Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:09 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: 30.06 AMC Theaters
Replies: 61
Views: 15062

Re: 30.06 AMC Theaters

C-dub wrote:
SpringfieldXD9 wrote:Either way, the location still seemed to not be following the law. The signs have to be posted at every entrance, and if you can "enter" the theater without going to the ticket window, that would be incorrect signage.
This is very wrong. See the part I emphasized in red below. It does not have to be at every entrance. It doesn't even have to be at an entrance to be seen prior to entry. If your instructor told you this I would be suspicious about anything else you were told.

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public

This is all hypothetical since the sign in question does not meet the other requirements of this section. That said, if the sign is not anywhere near any of the multiple entrances to the location, then I would argue that it is not "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public". This is similar to a business that has multiple entrances that are commonly used and only posts a few of them. At a minimum, I think it would be a defense to prosecution if the facts were that you entered the location through an entrance that is commonly used by the public, and there were no signs visible when you entered. If someone has to go out of their way to search all possible entrances (and in this case places that are not even near entrances) to see a sign, then I think the sign is by definition not "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public".

A similar situation would be a gas station / convenience store that put the 30.06 sign on the gas pumps, but had no sign near the door. Some customers will be at the gas pump before entering the building, others won't, just like in this case. Would we really expect a jury to convict a CHL holder because they stopped by the store to buy some milk and failed to walk around the entire premises searching for a potential 30.06 sign before entering?

Disclaimer - IANAL

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