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Taypo wrote:

teraph wrote:

Taypo wrote:

teraph wrote:Not quite. Ideally I tend to deal with what comes over the signals. In reality I turn wrenches, set up satellite dishes, pitch tents and just about everything but my job. Last AIT post I was at (Fort Sam) there were some ridiculous regulations about non AIT personnel not being allowed to correct AITers, even for flagrant uniform issues. I hope that is not the case at Gordon.

You and I may have background in common. I spent some time in Monterey and San Angelo to get started.

I think we do. I went straight to San Angelo though. I have spent a lot of time working with people from Monterey, teaching each other about what we do. I love my job, when I get to work it.

Gotcha. You guys always seemed to be squared away when I crossed paths with you. Good luck in Gordon!

Thank you

Taypo wrote:

teraph wrote:Not quite. Ideally I tend to deal with what comes over the signals. In reality I turn wrenches, set up satellite dishes, pitch tents and just about everything but my job. Last AIT post I was at (Fort Sam) there were some ridiculous regulations about non AIT personnel not being allowed to correct AITers, even for flagrant uniform issues. I hope that is not the case at Gordon.

You and I may have background in common. I spent some time in Monterey and San Angelo to get started.

I think we do. I went straight to San Angelo though. I have spent a lot of time working with people from Monterey, teaching each other about what we do. I love my job, when I get to work it.

Not quite. Ideally I tend to deal with what comes over the signals. In reality I turn wrenches, set up satellite dishes, pitch tents and just about everything but my job. Last AIT post I was at (Fort Sam) there were some ridiculous regulations about non AIT personnel not being allowed to correct AITers, even for flagrant uniform issues. I hope that is not the case at Gordon.

Taypo,

I think you may be right about us just butting heads, and the way the Army seems to be going. It is rough going right now, but I think parts are getting better. Slowly and painfully though.
I wish I could take you up on that drink, but I am actually on my way to Gordon right now. Thank you anyways.

E. Marquez,
I did not realize that you retired. Thank you for the time you have given the Army. And you are right. If you willingly violated policy, then you should be willing to face the consequences. I know quite a few that are willing to do that. And have been there myself, a couple of times. I do wish the LtCDR the best of luck on whatever the Navy decides.

Taypo,

First off, thanks for the interesting discussion. It is not often people can discuss like this. And FYI, if it seems like malice, anger, frustration etc are in this, they are not directed at you or anyone specific. More the issue as a whole.

Want to know why an ND at a post BK would be national news? Because the media wills it. Nothing more, nothing less.
And you are right. There is no way for me to trust every single Soldier in my 5000+ person Brigade. It is impossible to trust everyone because you do not know everyone. Do I trust those that I do know? Yes I do. I trust them because I (as a leader) took the time to get to know, train and teach them. Whether they are in my Platoon, Company, Battalion or on the other side of my Brigade. That is one of the basic tenets that I have always been taught. You train your Soldiers to think for themselves and to do the right thing. You train them to be responsible adults and Professionals in their career field. You train them to respond threats in the best manner possible, not cowering and hiding. Tactically finding the "high ground" and eliminating the threat as necessary. In the decade I have been in, I have never had a single one of my Soldiers get any form of NJP, because of how I trained and trusted them to do the right thing. Albeit, that does not mean I have not nailed them to the wall for doing stupid things. It has ranged from simple slaps on the wrist all the way to standing in front of Battalion and coming to attention/parade rest for those coming into Battalion and addressing them by rank and name. Then preceding to explain why he was there.

(Not to be read by the Brass. They might have an aneurysm)
As for opening the Armory, why should we? If we are allowed to carry, why not carry what we own? It is our right to defend ourselves, we should not need DoD permission or weapons and ammo. That would bring it under their purview, allowing them to make it Commander's Discretion (it is already there. The post Commander has the authority to allow Service Members to carry as he sees fit) and allow them to enact all kinds of regulations against it. The Brass should be left out of this. They, like many other people in power, have forgotten much of what it means to have your boots on the ground. Laying in that foxhole, stumbling out of a vehicle, walking down the street without an escort etc. Many of them do not realize the day to day life that the Joes, the NCOs and the Company Grade Officers work in. At FT Hood, they recently put a policy in place banning the use of standard 1qt water bottles (which a massive chunk of Soldiers use daily) in uniform. Many feel that the Camelbak is to aggravating for daily use and that is why many carry water bottles. They may be great and all when you do not have a free hand and need some water, but they suck in day to day work life. I am sure you have seen your version of this insanity at least once in your career.
As for Service Members concealing....why shouldn't we conceal? Give me a good reason other than "you are in uniform" (that answer reminds me of the "because I said so" answer). The main reason I have is the same as those that refuse to open carry. Because I would like to. If we are looking at it in a tactical sense, it means that you have less of a noticeable footprint (camouflage works in the crowd too). Realistically and honestly, personal weapons should be concealed. BECAUSE you are not working in an official armed capacity. You are working as a Service Member doing your job. (Imagine all the tinfoil hatters if they suddenly saw Service Members in uniform carrying CONUS, it'd be hilarious and saddening)
Side note: Personally I would love to go back to the old leather belts and holsters. They looked sharp in dress uniform.

The rest of my argument lies exactly where Jumping Frog took it. There are way to many restrictions in our 2A rights.

Thanks for your service and the discussion. But I am too hard headed to keep my head down, but thank you anyway. It is appreciated.

Taypo,

Every single Service Member goes through firearms training, except for Chaplains (but some of those guys can really shoot). It does not matter the branch of service. Some get more than others (Marines, combat arms etc) and some get less (Air Force, Research Officers). They all have proven their competency with firearms.

What I think you are trying to get at, is that you think that they are going to become a liability to anything firearm related. With that being said, how about those states that do not require proof of training (WA, PA), or those that allow unlicensed open or concealed carry (AZ, AK, WA (open) etc)? Many of those people in those states have far less training than a slick sleeve Airman, with less common sense than that 18 year old Infantryman. And they carry!
Or, better yet, how about the stories of cops and Feds that incurred a case of Glock Leg, or those NYPD cops that shot 16 rounds, and hit 9 bystanders? (Links below) They have had extensive pistol training and they are also armed professionals. What is the difference though?
The difference is that we are trained to "support and defend" through superior firepower. And we are the disArmed Forces of the United States of America when it comes to any form of terrorist attack on our own soil. Before Chattanooga, there have been many other attempts at attacking military installations. Fort Dix NJ, Fort Hood TX, Fort Bliss TX and Norfolk VA all have had terrorists attempt an attack and 2 of them succeeded. These are just the attacks off of the top of my head. I was nearby at one of these. It was not pretty and I know I am not alone when it comes to pushing some boundaries to ensure the safety of those around me.
If you are allowed to carry in your home, your neighborhood, your place of work, your grocery store, and your "big box store", why are we not? Especially when it has been proven many times over that we (the Military) are (relatively) soft targets for any form of attack? Yes, we may have armed guards at the gates. Would you still carry in a community where you had controlled access and armed cops minding the gates? And the response time on many installations is comparable to the times off post. And this does not even cover recruiting stations, National Guard Depots or any other place that is not a major installation. ALL of which have far less security than post does. I do not just want the military to carry, I would like some form of National Reciprocity, but there are times where we (as a firearms community) must take that small step before we can take the big one. I will personally be ecstatic if I am allowed to lawfully defend myself and my family next time an attack happens. Not if, but when.

As a side not, to me it sounds like you are being an elitist about Texas, and have some misconceptions. If I have misinterpreted, please enlighten us.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/empire-state-b ... d=17078377
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0 (DEA Glock Leg)

P.S. We get and give use of force, laws and regulations about firearms (open and concealed, civilian and military) very 6 months or so. And I am not SF, MP or any other MOS that gets to carry concealed daily. And allowing us to carry will actually be cheaper (lives and $) when the next event occurs and everyone is reacting and dying.