Search found 13 matches

by VMI77
Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:11 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

Dave2 wrote:
DocV wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote: ...
I'm not a certified and licensed firearms expert in the very least, but that APPEARS to be a shotgun that they are pulling out of the trunk. Which goes along with what I maintain about the media not knowing jack nothing about firearms, but spouting off AS IF THEY ARE EXPERTS...and the ignorant types in our society lap it all up like a sponge... :grumble :mad5
That certainly does not appear to be an AR. The officer is not using a charging handle to clear the weapon. The stock looks like a thumbhole rifle stock.
Yeah... Kinda looked like a semi-auto shotgun (something big fell out when the guy first racked it) with an aftermarket stock.

Sort of looks like a Benelli M4 or variant to me.
by VMI77
Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:36 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

bauer wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote: And yet AGAIN, more fodder to be fed to the sheep by the anti-2A leftist media...they pepper these articles with just enough meaty sounding stuff to make them sound "authentic". I loathe and despise them with all fiber of my being.
Thats pretty much how all mainstream media is run. They report the "facts" that are relavent to their wishes, desires, and political agenda instead of being 100% truthful and unbiased. Ultimately, abc ran that article in attempt to vilify any "AR looking platform" in the eyes of the average joe and gain support for the anti's political agenda. It's sad but its an effective technique because most people are nothing but mindless followers.
The media in this country are a true fifth column of traitorous vipers. Much of what has transpired to undermine the Republic would simply be impossible if it wasn't for the complicity and treason of the "news" media.
by VMI77
Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:16 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

I don't think there will be a confiscation ---not because they care about gun owner reaction, but because the mechanics of the process, especially the compensation aspect, will likely put the issue into the courts. However, if they go the confiscation route, there are various paths they can follow....from likely to less likely, but still possible:

1. Require everyone to turn in their weapons. Those not turned in will be functionally useless because anyone caught using one or in possession of one will end up in prison for 5 years or so --unless of course, they're an actual criminal, like a gang banger, in which case they'll just get the charges dropped or probation. Forget about getting any kind of market value...what they'd do is give you a tax credit, and the amount you can claim will be stated in an IRS table for each weapon type. I'd guess something like $500 for an AR, probably not more than $750. They will probably also ask for a declaration on the form that you don't have any prohibited weapons so they can nail you for perjury too if you are later caught with one. This obviously won't be effective for actually getting the weapons turned in....so it would just be a "we did something" exercise.

2. If they really want the weapons turned in, before they can proceed with confiscation, they need registration. If they pass any kind of registration then confiscation is definitely coming. They might require gun dealers to turn in all their 4473s. They'd also probably give rewards to those people who report on anyone who has prohibited weapons, so watch out for those liberal friends and family members. If they're serious about getting every gun they can then the registration process will take awhile, and will also require gun owners to register their weapons, all of them, not just "assault" weapons, and anyone subsequently caught with an unregistered weapon will go to prison --again, excepting actual criminals.

3. I highly doubt there will be door to door searches in either scenario. I doubt they will even go door to door with registered or known gun owners. That would send everyone in the country the message that we're in a totalitarian police state, and they want to maintain the pretense of "freedom" for as long as possible. What they may do then is target certain gun owners for shock and awe attacks carried out by the BATF. Any resistance will be met with extermination. These raids will be publicized, anyone they kill will be labeled a "terrorist," and the media will revel in the elimination of these evil and dangerous people. Most other gun owners will be afraid not to turn in prohibited weapons.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:13 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

jrmcm wrote:
VMI77 wrote: Or maybe I'm just a lot older than you are or more familiar with the history of government and media. Go ahead and explain things like the unemployment stats in the same context. Is it paranoid and irrational to to realize that these numbers are intentional lies? I don't know what the truth is....the ME report may be true but I no longer just accept something a government official says as true, and I'm particularly skeptical when information changes to align with particular narratives and ideologies that happen to be the same narratives and ideologies of the people exploiting and "reporting" it.

Again, the ME report may be correct, but I note you didn't provide an explanation of how the reports could be so colossally wrong? The police gave the media the information about what guns were used. Someone at the scene had to pass that information to someone interfacing with the media. How could the police at the scene not know the difference between rifle and handgun casings? Do you have a plausible explanation of how such basic information got confused --along with the claim that the rifle was in the car-- because I don't. Wouldn't the rifle have been on or near the body of the killer as well? Is it likely the ME falsified his report? Probably not in a case getting this much attention, but it wouldn't be the first time it has happened either. Have you seen the actual report? Is is possible the media is distorting the report in the same way they distorted information about Zimmerman and always distort and lie about guns?

Yes, initial reports are often incorrect, and they also happen to frequently be incorrect in a way that serves the agenda of the MSM. We won't really be able to get a true picture of what happened until a least a month from now, possibly longer, and then you'll have to dig for it.....you won't find it in the MSM, just like they "forgot" to mention the guy with a CHL at the mall in Oregon.
I was't aware that I needed to provide an explanation of why initial reports were so colossally wrong. I figured in your advanced age and wisdom, as you were so quick to tout, you would have understood the basic theory of it.

Other notable details of the story that media reports were initially incorrect about:

That the shooter's name was Ryan Lanza
That the shooter's mother was killed at the school.
That there were multiple shooters
That there was a second scene of multiple homicides in New Jersey, tied to the shooter
That the shooter's mother had no connection to the school


So tell me, which media agenda did any of these erroneous reports bolster?

Initial media reports are often wrong for a ton of reasons, the predominant one being the rush to be "first" in reporting, thereby skipping much of the fact checking process. Eyewitness accounts are generally the primary source of this early information, and eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable in no small part because of the reconstructive memory process.
Reporting of unemployment statistics has absolutely no relevance to this incident. Stop bringing it up.

You have completely undermined your argument by intimating that incorrect media reports are deliberate as to further an agenda. Pretty ironic, seeing as the initial media report of the weapon type(s) actually used in the assault is what I came in here to refute.
Sorry, 1) don't understand....thought you might be able to provide a plausible explanation but apparently you can't; and 2) don't take orders from you and I won't stop bringing up official stats as relevant, because they are. The official stats are lies that are parroted uncritically by the press. Their existence demonstrates not only that the government lies, and creates certain lies openly via a process that involves many people both inside and outside the government, but that the media facilitates the lies and doesn't call them on it. So, there is absolutely nothing incredible about the notion that the government and the pressitutes lie to further their agenda.

Your apparent argument that certain examples of what the media misreported do not further an agenda is a strawman: FAIL. I never claimed that every little detail of what the media reports is in furtherance of an agenda. I referenced what was reported about Zimmerman as an example and which very obviously did serve an agenda. In this particular case, as I also pointed out, we don't know enough yet to see the whole picture. I never claimed that the media doesn't make honest errors or that all their errors are agenda driven, so again with your strawman argument: FAIL. Examples of what has been reported that does serve their agenda:

the killer used high capacity magazines
the killer used an "assault rifle"
the killer had hundreds of rounds of ammunition
the killer's mother was a "doomsday" prepper
the killer's mother was a gun collector and had "a lot" of guns
the killer's mother took the killer to a gun range and taught him how to shoot
the killer's mother thought the world was about to end

The first three claims are either true or false and can be proven or dismissed based on physical evidence. The last four claims are all hearsay, or as in the case of taking her son to the gun range, meant to suggest that his mother, the gun nut, is responsible for his killing spree because she taught him how to shoot. She's not around to explain her beliefs so the press can't know what she actually believed....the claims about her are intended to make her look like a nut, and hence, to paint people with several guns who make preparations for an unpredictable future, and teach their children to shoot, as nuts.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:46 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

DocRhino wrote:In my opinion the Gun Control Stalemate entails an underlying reality that can't be broken. The framers of the Constitution included the RKBA as a balance for a tyrannical, over-reaching government. I'm confident that the framers would be aghast at the oft-taken position that citizens are, or should be, precluded from having 'military grade' weapons. What they had in mind was that that citizens should have the same weaponry that would be used against them should the government begin to abuse its power. The RKBA wasn't limited to 'one level below police and military': they have muskets, you can have edged weapons; they have automatic weapons, you can have semi-autos...

They also had cannons...and I'm not arguing we should have artillery pieces though that argument could probably be made....just pointing out the the expected lethality at the time went beyond mere musketry. Also, by lib logic, we should be able to carry around swords, and black powder pistols and muskets with, NO restrictions, since that was the practice when the amendment was written. But we know that these lib claims aren't intended to be real arguments....their emoticons whose sole purpose is to influence ignorant people to support the liberal anti-gun position.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:50 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

jrmcm wrote:
VMI77 wrote:
Ok, well, I am. Especially one in Connecticut. And anyway, who said anything about "willingly?" All levels of government routinely lie about everything. All the official economic stats are now official lies...especially the inflation and employment stats. These lies are right out in the open too, so you can bet that there is plenty of lying going around with things that are not so open.
So let me get this straight... you're more inclined to believe reactionary media reports immediately following the incident, which are notoriously unreliable (in this case, that the handguns were used and not the rifle), versus the medical examiner's autopsy report 4 days later?
I'm really not trying to be inflammatory, but do you have any idea how paranoid and irrational that is?

Or maybe I'm just a lot older than you are or more familiar with the history of government and media. Go ahead and explain things like the unemployment stats in the same context. Is it paranoid and irrational to to realize that these numbers are intentional lies? I don't know what the truth is....the ME report may be true but I no longer just accept something a government official says as true, and I'm particularly skeptical when information changes to align with particular narratives and ideologies that happen to be the same narratives and ideologies of the people exploiting and "reporting" it.

Again, the ME report may be correct, but I note you didn't provide an explanation of how the reports could be so colossally wrong? The police gave the media the information about what guns were used. Someone at the scene had to pass that information to someone interfacing with the media. How could the police at the scene not know the difference between rifle and handgun casings? Do you have a plausible explanation of how such basic information got confused --along with the claim that the rifle was in the car-- because I don't. Wouldn't the rifle have been on or near the body of the killer as well? Is it likely the ME falsified his report? Probably not in a case getting this much attention, but it wouldn't be the first time it has happened either. Have you seen the actual report? Is is possible the media is distorting the report in the same way they distorted information about Zimmerman and always distort and lie about guns?

Yes, initial reports are often incorrect, and they also happen to frequently be incorrect in a way that serves the agenda of the MSM. We won't really be able to get a true picture of what happened until a least a month from now, possibly longer, and then you'll have to dig for it.....you won't find it in the MSM, just like they "forgot" to mention the guy with a CHL at the mall in Oregon.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:14 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

jrmcm wrote:
VMI77 wrote: You're not at all skeptical about that? We were told for hours and hours that the .223 was in the car and he used two handguns for the murders. How can such a colossal error be explained? The police couldn't tell the difference between spent handgun rounds and spent .223 rounds? The immediate narrative was for an AWB --and the .223 slowly migrated from the car to the murder scene. It seems mighty suspicious to me that the facts evolved to fit the narrative. But then I don't really believe anything in the MSM, especially when they're pushing an agenda so hard.
That is the official ME's report. No, I'm not skeptical about that. I am not inclined to believe that a county medical examiner would willingly lie about the details of the deaths of 25 individuals in order to bolster a political agenda that he may or may not agree with.
Ok, well, I am. Especially one in Connecticut. And anyway, who said anything about "willingly?" All levels of government routinely lie about everything. All the official economic stats are now official lies...especially the inflation and employment stats. These lies are right out in the open too, so you can bet that there is plenty of lying going around with things that are not so open.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:09 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

SQLGeek wrote:
longhorn_92 wrote:

I just had a debate with a liberal family mememer about the right to having "Assault" weapons. I learned real quick the mind of a liberal is focused on emotion rather than fact.
I also went through a similar discussion except this person wants all guns abolished. When I presented numerous arguments for the right to bear arms, I was met with accusations of essentially being brain washed by other family members, not having formed my actual opinion on the matter, when that was shot down the person appealed to me to consider what would have happened if my child was one of the ones killed. Lastly I was informed that I did not have enough life experience to adequately comment on the subject and that this person knew many that were victims of gun violence. Not one shred of rational thought was put out, instead a pie in the sky ideal to remove all guns from the country because other countries have done it.

I wish I were making this up.

What countries have removed all guns? Communist China, Japan? Mexico? Ha ha ha. Certainly not any European countries that amount to anything. Just about every western country allows people to own shotguns and bolt action rifles. Some of them also allow silencers....some even require them. Even the UK allows .22 rimfire rifles...with the Ruger 10/22 one of the most popular rifles in the country, and Ireland still allows handguns for self-defense, and people to carry shotguns in public.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:03 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

jrmcm wrote:
longhorn_92 wrote:

the children at the school were murdered with two handguns while the AR15 wa still in the trunk of the vehicle
That is incorrect. Every victim was shot multiple times with only .223. The handguns were never used.
You're not at all skeptical about that? We were told for hours and hours that the .223 was in the car and he used two handguns for the murders. How can such a colossal error be explained? The police couldn't tell the difference between spent handgun rounds and spent .223 rounds? The immediate narrative was for an AWB --and the .223 slowly migrated from the car to the murder scene. It seems mighty suspicious to me that the facts evolved to fit the narrative. But then I don't really believe anything in the MSM, especially when they're pushing an agenda so hard.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:58 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thomas wrote:
PUCKER wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
AEA wrote:BOTTOM LINE: I am NOT giving mine up, no matter what the law says. They are literally going to have to try and take them, and yes, I WILL fire on an American who is treasonous enough to try and enforce something like that. I've had a good life, and nobody lives forever, and my eternal destiny is a settled matter. Maybe if enough old coots go down fighting, enough young coots will stand up to carry the fight forward. I'm deadly serious about this.
Right next to you...at a "young" 41. This (confiscation of firearms) is the line in the sand that must NOT be crossed!!! :patriot:
I'm willing to be that a good number people will be making police reports saying that their truck or whatever was broken into and all of their guns were stolen before they had a chance to turn them in.
....or not. There is no requirement to report a theft of your own property, including the theft of a firearm, if I'm not mistaken. It may or may not be wise to do so according to one's conscience, but I don't believe there is any law requiring one to report the theft of a gun.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My point is that I don't want to bring the gummint into my affairs if it is in any way avoidable. After all, you could be liable to filing a false police report if you weren't telling the truth. Government is never your friend anymore. Might have been at one time, but no longer. If my guns go missing, it's nobody's business but my own.
Not in the US, at least not in Texas, but such reporting is a feature of restrictive gun laws just about everywhere else in the world. In the UK they registered all handguns as step one, and supposedly, they were able to account for all but eight of them during confiscation. But it was no doubt an easier task there than it would be here --I believe they only had about 35,000 handgun owners at the point of confiscation. And we must all remember that now, if the police lie to us, it's just standard business practice, but it is against the law for us to lie to the police. So, excepting some unusual circumstances and how one might judge the risks, it is best to say nothing but phrases like: am I under arrest? am I free to go? and "I will only speak upon consultation with an attorney."
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:52 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

AEA wrote:Here's another thought.......

If they do end up forcing an AR Ban and it involves a turn in of all existing AR's, we need to get our Congress Critters to force the Govt to pay fair market value to the owner for every one turned in. And we need to make it clear that if our Congress Critters do not get this done, they will be voted out of office at first opportunity.

They think they can just take the guns away without compensation? They think they can offer 50 bux for a 1200+ dollar AR? I don't think so "Timmy".

This needs to be addressed NOW, before it's too late.

I don't wanna give up my AR. And I surely don't want to give it up for nothing considering all the money I have in it.

Why should I? Because of Nut Jobs that propagate the Left's agenda? :mad5

And, besides all this, I am willing to bet that MaoBama is behind all of these shootings anyway. :roll: :banghead:
Unless you're a true believe in "coincidence" it's had to think otherwise.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:50 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

Rex B wrote:
AEA wrote:Here's another thought.......

If they do end up forcing an AR Ban and it involves a turn in of all existing AR's, we need to get our Congress Critters to force the Govt to pay fair market value to the owner for every one turned in. And we need to make it clear that if our Congress Critters do not get this done, they will be voted out of office at first opportunity.
I don't think we even need to be discussing this as a possibility. It's an opportunity for the camel to get its nose under the tent.
There are over a million ARs in private homes already. They are not going away, and we need to affirm that whenever it comes up, and it will.
No, they need to pay for MUCH more than that.....any confiscation needs to include payment at market rates for every accessory purchased for said rifles --scopes, slings, magazines, ammo, lights, laser sights, new forends, new stocks, gun cases, etc.
by VMI77
Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:48 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)
Replies: 55
Views: 5914

Re: Breaking The Gun Control Stalemate (Article)

carlson1 wrote:Will they put you on the list for having some depression. I counsel several people a week that are having a hard time to job loss, financial pressure, relationship pressure, etc. . ., but who is it that is going to decide that they are able to function in society as a working honest civilian in our society.

Everyone that has mild depression does not need medicine and EVERYONE at one time or another have had periods of depression.

If such a list is allowed it will be a "no buy list" and like the "no fly list" you will never know why you were put on it and you'll never be able to get your name removed.

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