Search found 3 matches

by VMI77
Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:38 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: 8 dead - Copley OH Shooting
Replies: 20
Views: 2156

Re: 8 dead - Copley OH Shooting

johnson0317 wrote:
VMI77 wrote: With conservatives like Bill O'Reilly, who supports gun confiscation "in emergencies" --such as the post Katrina gun confiscation-- you don't need as many liberals.
Yeah, it is depressing that he has some views that I disagree with, but we have to be willing to support the first ammendment as much as the second. He has 20 million plus viewers, but I bet many of them absolutely disagree with him on that issue, plus some others. I find (and fire away!) that most conservatives can think well for themselves, unlike some other groups who need the latest soundbites to establish their position.

Think about this, however, and it is just my way of looking at things...if every commentator on Fox walked the straight right line, if they did not deviate from it all, then I would think the network unworthy of being on the air. It would mean one of several things. It could mean that they force their commentators to toe the line. It might mean that they have no intention of putting a balance in place. If the network was not imposing restrictions, it would mean that the people they hired are unable to think for themselves and have adopted right-wing politics en masse. I would rather have some balance there. I am, personally, smart enough to seperate the wheat from the chaff. I can think for myself and know when to disagree. At least on Fox, it is much less often than on MSNBC, or CNN. I can not even watch those networks for the amusement value anymore. FoxNews uses the "Fair and Balanced" line. If they did not provide some balance, some Alan Colmes, some Sheps, then they would simply be selling a lie. Besides, know your enemy and hold them closer than you hold your friends.

For every O'Reilly who has an ignorant stance on gun control, there are Glenn Becks who talk about packing heat when they went to the movies. Balance. O'Reilly entertains and informs, he does not legislate. I think his ability, despite his audience, to affect gun legislation is minimal.

RJ
I look at it a little differently. I don't believe anyone who is given any significant air time in our MSM can be taken at face value. The media systemically limits the parameters of debate. The parameters are a little different on Fox because they're targeting a particular audience. I think Fox knows who its audience is and tailors what it broadcasts to appeal to that demographic. I'm betting they take plenty of polls and surveys and tune their content to match. And I don't think it's as simple at telling one segment of their audience everything they want to hear --I think ratings also depend on some manufactured controversy.

No one in the MSM can say whatever they want to, including the commentators on Fox. Their allowed parameters of discussion are a little different than those on say, MSNBC, but if they stray too far off message, they're going to get reined in or fired. Fox exists to make money. Commentators like O'Reilly are there to make money. They know what they can and can't say on the job just like I know what I can and can't say on my job. My job allows me a lot of latitude to act on principle and say what I want but I know there are still things I can't say.

Bottom line, I don't take these guys as being men of principle --I don't think men of principle work for the MSM-- and I don't think we know where they really stand on much of anything.
by VMI77
Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:42 pm
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: 8 dead - Copley OH Shooting
Replies: 20
Views: 2156

Re: 8 dead - Copley OH Shooting

Heartland Patriot wrote:
johnson0317 wrote:I am at a loss. I feel so terrible for surviving family members. At the same time, I am angry because I know some dip is going to use this instance as "one more example" for why we need stricter gun laws. You know the Brady Center is going to be all over this. By the way, if you ever want to feel completely aggravated, go visit their site. You really do need to know what the enemy is up to. The way they can twist events to fit their agenda usually leaves me with my mouth open. I made a plea, last night, for people to join the NRA, and to support the NRA-ILA. This is one of our best ramparts against the flood of stupidity and ignorance

Here is a good example of why they are important. I just watched a clip of the Executive VP and CEO of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, off of YouTube. It was an appearance he just put in on FoxNews, a conservative network. The anti-gun nuts are so effective that even the interviewer was swallowing the Kool-Aid. He was there to talk about the new BATFE requirement (and the attempt to deflect attention away from the Fast and Furious debacle) that dealers must report anyone who buys more than one long gun in a week. The gal interviewing him was honestly baffled as to why he would oppose such regulations if it might keep guns out of the hands of the criminal cartels. Wayne was very gracious and did not make her feel like a moron, and he could have! I am not sure she ever really understood what he was trying to say. Piece by piece, people, piece by piece. The right-wing, and the Obama administration are smart enough to know they can not get away with a full-scale assault on our second ammendment rights...they know they have to piecemeal it out. A little seemingly insignificant thing here, one there. The framers of our constitution knew the danger of a government that did not want its citizens armed. A government that does not want its people armed, does not have citizens, it has subjects.

RJ
Two things: First, Fox News is NOT a conservative network. Its simply that the others are so leftist that Fox looks conservative in contrast AND they allow PUNDITS who are conservative to voice their opinions, also at odds with the other news sources. Just trying to add some clarity on that one. Second, you are correct about incrementalism. That is exactly how the anti-firearm, anti-self-defense crowd did it in the UK, Australia, and Canada. A little at a time. Quite impossible, indeed, for them to go "door-to-door"...but if they can ever get Americans to buy off on doing it "for safety", then they take one step closer to their eventual goal of disarming the populace. They only care about "the masses" and not one whit about any individual who may suffer because they didn't have the means to defend themselves. It is a herd mentality that leftists have and it is also about control...control of you and me.
They don't care about the masses either --pretending to is just part of the strategy they use to get their way.

Our propaganda media that pretends to be a "news" media is working hand in hand with the pro-criminal anti-self defense crowd to advance the collectivist agenda, and I fear they are taking a toll. Their favored tactic is the lie by omission. How they do it with guns is very simple: stories about violence, like this one, or even just the threat of violence (like man with a gun stories that turn out to be mistakes), or just the misuse of a gun (gun in a kids backpack) , get national coverage, and sometimes even worldwide coverage. Legal uses of a gun in self-defense virtually never get national coverage (unless there is some aspect to the event that can be used to disparage it) --they stay at the local level. Over time this has the effect of leaving people who don't know anything about guns with the impression that they are only used by criminals. And that, of course, is the intention.

I no longer consider the collectivists as anti-gun though, I think that gives them too much credit. They're not really anti-gun --they want the authorities to have guns and they want criminals to have guns. They're anti-self defense. The anti-gun stuff is solely a backdoor tactic used to eliminate the right to self-defense. Politically it's a loser to say people shouldn't have the right do defend themselves; especially in the US, but I don't think it's a message what would be well received anywhere, even in an enfeebled country like the UK. So, they go after the means of self-defense instead. They'd straight up make it illegal for anyone to resist or injure a criminal if they could get away with it.
by VMI77
Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:23 pm
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: 8 dead - Copley OH Shooting
Replies: 20
Views: 2156

Re: 8 dead - Copley OH Shooting

johnson0317 wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote: Two things: First, Fox News is NOT a conservative network. Its simply that the others are so leftist that Fox looks conservative in contrast AND they allow PUNDITS who are conservative to voice their opinions, also at odds with the other news sources.
umm, I respectfully beg to differ...and FoxNews is on at my house most of the time. Their Internet newspage is my home page. The programs that make up the majority of their viewing audience are indeed conservative, but they do allow non-conservative points of view. If they were not conservative, do you think the so-called "Fairness Doctrine" would have been pushed the way it was? You is what you is, or you is not. If they are not conservative, then they are liberal. There is no "fair and balanced" in the media, although they do attempt to give both sides a chance, sort of. You ever hear Bill, or Hannity continually shut down a dissenting voice mid-sentence? You ever see them not do so?

Sorry, just not sure how you came to the conclusion that you did.

RJ

With conservatives like Bill O'Reilly, who supports gun confiscation "in emergencies" --such as the post Katrina gun confiscation-- you don't need as many liberals.

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