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1s1k52 wrote:How do you go about seeing how much light gathering it has when your in a well lit store?

That can be tough.....usually the Bass Pro near me lets me walk scopes about 10 feet away from the counter, mounted on a wooden stock mockup with a rubber mount to hold the scope, and I can aim it across the store. It's still well lit compared to dusk but nothing as bright as right at the counter.

Another method would be to take a butler creek cap that you know will fit, and cut a hole that does not let in nearly as much light. You're effectively cutting down the objective bell size and restricting light. This is not practical if you are looking at scopes of multiple objective sizes, BC caps aren't exactly dirt cheap. ARDs can restrict light as well depending on their quality....

1s1k52 wrote:yeah I understand illumination is key. and yeah I have heard spend more on the scope than the gun but like i said anything is better than what I currently have. The way I look at it is the gun and scope combo keeps me under 700 or right around it. This will be MY first rifle/scope setup which I have seen better and worse. This will give me a chance to decide for myself what I first hand do and don't like about a setup. As of recent I have had to drastically change my work schedule to where hunting will be out of the question so I may just end up not getting it at all sad to say.

I am sorry to hear that.


Basic rules to keep in mind about optics:
- No amount of features will ever make up for glass quality. If you need low light performance, you cannot get around that with mil/mil, FFP, illumination, etc.
- You really do tend to get what you pay for.
- Some people are glass snobs and want the Hubble Telescope on their rifle. Their opinion may not mirror your own, given the same conditions and sample scope.
- Last but not least, make sure you're honest about your needs. Scope what you need, not what sounds cool or is the latest fad.


I think Nikon makes great scopes, I have also owned off-brand tactical scopes, Leupolds, etc. I now have a Vortex Viper PST mil/mil FFP scope on order, but that is because I want to reach out to 1000 yards and eventually shoot competitions. For simple hunting and paper plinking I was fine with my Nikon.

1s1k52 wrote:Meaning reticle illumination?

Correct.

1s1k52 wrote:I was looking at the primary arms and I was told to stay away from the zoom being on top like that.

Anything I will get is better than what I currently have which is nothing. The milldot and all that is not as important as being able to see at low light.

Nikon is a good bet then. If I was not trying to reach out to 1k yds I would not have sold my Nikon. You can find them - the Buckmaster line - on the EE section of AR15 most weeks for $250 lightly used. I did not notice an issue in low light with mine, but it does lack illumination.

1s1k52 wrote:I finally had a chance to go to cabellas. Tried out almost every scope they had for 400 or under. Nikon Pro Staff 3-9x50 was probably the best scope I have ever laid hands on and it was 229.00. Even the guy was saying the scope should be priced for more. Either way that is the scope I have picked out. I tried the 40mm as well. The only scope that I may get instead is the Buckmaster with mildot. thoughts? They also are now carrying the Ruger American for 372.00 which is 27 cheaper than..cheaper than dirt. Cheaper Than Dirt had the combo with bi-pod and scope for 700.00 or more but the scope wasn't very good. I pointed that out and the salesman just kind of shrugged.

Anyways I want to thank everyone for the input. Cranking out some OT to get this hopefully sooner than later. Birthday is next month so that should bump me close. It is either this or build a basic AR for around the same price but that would leave me with no optic.

I recently sold a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40mm mildot, it was a great scope for what it was, and it has the typical Nikon glass quality. Something you will need to realize, though, is that glass is one thing where you get what you pay for. If you want all of the features, plus longevity, plus quality, you wind up paying for it. If you want less money, you start losing features, or quality, or longevity. You get the idea.

Another company that puts out great entry-level optics, albeit Chinese-made(most every scope in your price range will be made overseas), is Primary Arms. Here is a scope that has everything you want: https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arm ... pa416x.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of great reviews of that scope over on AR15.com. I've owned some of their CQB kit and it's worth every cent you pay for it, maybe more in some cases. Just some more food for thought, if those features are really what you're after. The glass quality is not going to be equal to Nikon, but unless you'll be shooting low light, it is my understanding the clarity is fine.

Higher quality glass will aid in ambient light collection(larger objective will help get around that to a point), which is why it aids in low light shooting, with a crisper image.