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OK, I surrender. I swear I'm not drinking, but my mind is clearly not working well.sjfcontrol wrote:uhh, all guns have a trigger... I presume you mean a hammer?
I would presume it was cocked if there was a round in the chamber, and the gun would fire if the trigger was pulled. Essentially, the striker is retracted (at least part way). but yes, the term is not definitive on all handguns.
OK, now I've gotta ask ya. How do you cock a gun that doesn't have a trigger?sjfcontrol wrote:There are no "locks" on either my Glock, or my XD. Carrying either with one in the pipe would be "cocked and unlocked". Perhaps the "go away" option is the correct one...baldeagle wrote:Let me see if I can unscramble my horrible explanation. I meant that you shouldn't carry cocked and unlocked. Many modern semi-autos cannot be locked, so they should never be carried cocked. Is that better? Or should I give up and go away now?The Annoyed Man wrote:I used to own a USP Compact .40 which could be carried cocked and locked, or decocked DA. I carried it both ways.baldeagle wrote:No. I was saying that if you have a DA/SA pistol and you carry it cocked, you're crazy. A 1911 (or any pistol) that has a safety should be carried cocked, right? Forgot about the Glocks.
Sorry for the confusion.
Let me see if I can unscramble my horrible explanation. I meant that you shouldn't carry cocked and unlocked. Many modern semi-autos cannot be locked, so they should never be carried cocked. Is that better? Or should I give up and go away now?The Annoyed Man wrote:I used to own a USP Compact .40 which could be carried cocked and locked, or decocked DA. I carried it both ways.baldeagle wrote:No. I was saying that if you have a DA/SA pistol and you carry it cocked, you're crazy. A 1911 (or any pistol) that has a safety should be carried cocked, right? Forgot about the Glocks.
Sorry for the confusion.
No. I was saying that if you have a DA/SA pistol and you carry it cocked, you're crazy. A 1911 (or any pistol) that has a safety should be carried cocked, right? Forgot about the Glocks.sjfcontrol wrote:Well, I know the Glocks can't be cocked -- no hammer. Unless by cocked, you mean carrying with one in the chamber. And people carry modern semi-autos with one in the pipe all the time. That's the way I carry my XD-9, also striker-fired like the Glocks. And I swear I've seen officers carrying their SA guns with hammer cocked -- presumably with the safety on. So either we are talking about different things, or I disagree with the above highlighted statement. Are you saying you carry such that you'd have to rack the slide before shooting?baldeagle wrote: According to this police officers forum:AFAIK, all those guns can be cocked. But you'd be an idiot to holster a cocked modern semi-automatic.ON DUTY
S&W 5946
Glock 19
Sigarms P226 DAO
OFF DUTY
Glock 26
S&W 3914
Sigarms P239
S&W 3953 TSW
S&W 640 .38
The Kahr K9 is no longer authorized although there are around 7,000 in the field
There's nothing wrong with a DAO or a heavy trigger pull if you practice regularly. If you don't practice regularly, there's a lot wrong with it.
When I practice with both of my Sigs (P226 9mm and P239 .357 Sig), I always start every magazine as double action. After all, if I'm in a bad situation and have to pull my weapon, the first shot is going to be double action. I'd better be used to it and able to shoot accurately, or the first shot is not only a complete waste but a danger to bystanders.
According to this police officers forum:sjfcontrol wrote:I gather they're talking about revolvers, and this is saying they MUST shoot double-action? With their extra-heavy New York triggers? Anybody know what firearms are currently carried by New York's "finest"?baldeagle wrote:GUIDELINES FOR THE USE OF FIREARMS
i. Police officers shall not, under any circumstances, cock a firearm.
AFAIK, all those guns can be cocked. But you'd be an idiot to holster a cocked modern semi-automatic.ON DUTY
S&W 5946
Glock 19
Sigarms P226 DAO
OFF DUTY
Glock 26
S&W 3914
Sigarms P239
S&W 3953 TSW
S&W 640 .38
The Kahr K9 is no longer authorized although there are around 7,000 in the field
I'm at a loss for words.Uniformed members of the service should use only the minimal amount of force necessary to protect human life. Where feasible, and consistent with personal safety, some warning, such as “POLICE – DON’T MOVE,” should be given. Deadly force is never justified in the defense of property. Above all, the safety of the public and uniformed members of the service must be the overriding concern whenever the use of firearms is considered.
GUIDELINES FOR THE USE OF FIREARMS
a. Police officers shall not use deadly physical force against another person unless they have probable cause to believe they must protect themselves or another person present from imminent death or serious physical injury.
b. Police officers shall not discharge their weapons when doing so will unnecessarily endanger innocent persons.
c. Police officers shall not discharge their firearms in defense of property.
d. Police officers shall not discharge their firearms to subdue a fleeing felon who presents no threat of imminent death or serious physical injury to themselves or another person present.
e. Police officers shall not fire warning shots.
f. Police officers shall not discharge their firearms to summon assistance except in emergency situations when someone’s personal safety is endangered and unless no other reasonable means is available.
g. Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly physical force is being used against the police officer or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle.
h. Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at a dog or other animal except to protect themselves or another person from physical injury and there is no other reasonable means to eliminate the threat.
i. Police officers shall not, under any circumstances, cock a firearm.
Oh fer cryin' out loud. The police bullets hit the bystanders. If they were shooting "flowerpots and other objects around", their marksmenship is still questionable at best. If you watch the video, they weren't more than 10 yards from the gunman. At that range, if you can't keep it within the eight ring, you need to put the weapon down and go find some other line of work.chasfm11 wrote:The lastest says
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/n ... ?hpt=hp_t1
that there were no direct police hits on the bystanders
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."Hmmmm....Police officers fired a total of 16 rounds; one officer shot nine while another one shot seven, the New York Police Department said.
